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  • #16
    Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
    3. The EU did not take away Poland's power. 77% of Polish voters chose to give some of the powers of their national government to EU institutions in the 2004 referendum on EU membership.
    Hardy if you take into consideration that only slightly over 50% of those eligible to vote actually did so and the EU they voted for was totally different from the one we see today. During the campaign no one spoke of transferring power to bunch of nominated, not elected officials in Brussels.

    As for the Soviet Union reference, as somebody with Polish origins you should be ashamed of yourself and apologize to all your family and fellow Polish citizens who suffered under the torture of the Soviets and the Polish communists.
    The only thing justLOT787 can be ashamed of is that he raised an argument which he wasn't able to defend. The similarities between Soviet Union and EU lies in centrally planned and controlled economy, not in treatment of it's citizens. At least not yet.

    THis is a new posted of the EU promoting some sort of diversity. What's the symbol of the Soviet Union doing there?

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    • #17
      Peter_K, justLOT787 - I am sorry to say that, but you quite obviously have no idea what Europe is about and don't want to see what we true Europeans are trying to do. Here are a few replies:

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Peter_K View Post
        Hardy if you take into consideration that only slightly over 50% of those eligible to vote actually did so and the EU they voted for was totally different from the one we see today. During the campaign no one spoke of transferring power to bunch of nominated, not elected officials in Brussels.
        Are you telling me that almost 50% of the Poles didn't care enough to even go to the polls on such an important decision? If you don't use your freedom (like the right to vote) I am not sure you deserve that freedom, but you DEFINITELY don't have the right to complain after the vote.
        How the EU works isn't a secret and in 2004, the internet was widely available to people in Poland. So if you tell that people in Poland didn't know what they were voting for, are you telling me that your own people are ignorant or stupid?

        Originally posted by Peter_K View Post
        (...)THis is a new posted of the EU promoting some sort of diversity. What's the symbol of the Soviet Union doing there?
        As for the picture you posted, I have no idea where you got it. I have never seen it anywhere before. I'd be grateful for a link to the website, so I could check for myself, what the EU has been posting there.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          (...)You have to keep your eyes open it's common sense not to see things only one way. wake up!!
          ...I'll get back to this quote in a minute...

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          1. European Community? I hope you are talking about after WW2. Because a lot of these countries have killed each other in the past and now they are "friends" (EU). As far as no war between EU countries com on man history always repeats it self one way or another because generation forget the past.
          Of course, I am talking about the EU after WW2. Actually that's what I said further up. As for history repeating itself, may I ask how soon do you think the southern states will again secede from the United States?

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          2. Nothing wrong with FOX but you let CNN or BBC fill your head with nonsense ....hahahaha + Countries like Greece, Spain want to leave.
          Here we go... *lol... it is okay to see things just one way as long as I see it the FOX way??? You were the one who just previoulsy wrote:
          You have to keep your eyes open it's common sense not to see things only one way.
          And at the risk of repeating myself: Greece and Spain DO NOT want to leave the EU, because the European Union is the only hope they have to avoid a total financial disaster.

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          3. Yes Poland voted to be part of the EU and it's "family" but not for EU to slowly take away every ones power because EU is doing that.
          Who told you that and where is proof for this claim? And don't tell me it's 'common knowledge'. Oh - and while I am at it: why do YOU think Poland voted to be part of the EU?

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          4. There is no way in hell Europe will be the same as US in any way shape or form, Europe has just too many different cultures, differences and you can see and smell it now that some kind of conflict is brewing. I would love for the world to be in peace and conflict free but this is only temporary.
          Well - I sure hope, that once the European Union becomes fully established, we would have better social services and schools than the US

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          5. Have you ever been out side Germany or EU?
          I have been to 42 countries so far, including spending a year living and studying in the USA in 1993/1994 and revisiting the USA thirteen times for vacation since then, travelling to 35 different states in the course of these trips. So, I think I know a bit about the US of A.

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          EU wants every one to speak one language, have one history, one currency, no borders be one big "happy family"
          No borders - nothing wrong with that. One currency - nothing wrong with that either (we know that if it succeeds it will scare the Americans a lot). One history - we already have that (it started about 3000 years ago). One language??? Who told you that? Have you ever been to the European Parliament for example? Well - there, all debates are translated into each member country's official language, so that Polish delegates can listen in their language to what somebody from Portugal or Malta has to say.

          Originally posted by justLOT787 View Post
          On Topic - raising prices, coming up with new taxes will not solve Co2 problem I would love for every thing not to run on fossile fuel but it will not happen any time soon, fossile fuel is king that will not be replaced any time soon. But it will run out and if people don't come up with a new way to preserve energy then we are S.O.L
          Raising prices through taxes will not solve the CO2 problem all by itself. But it's an incentive to do something about it. Here's an example: Drastically raising prices (through increased taxes) on tobacco products has been very successful in decreasing the number of smokers, especially teenage smokers.

          Comment


          • #20
            Adding my two cents worth here this tax is ill thought out and poorly planned. No airline outside the EU will want to pay it especially for flights not flying within the EU and EU Airlines will complain about anti competitive taxes. There are many better ways the EU could have got this money but to charge on flights not flying in EU airspace is simply ridiculous and would never be allowed. Its upto the governments of each respective country to tax as they see fit and the EU doesnt have the power to decide otherwise.

            Going onto the idea of paying more for flights now. Most of us in Europe and to be fair other parts of the world already pay massive amounts of taxes that are sqandered by our governments so why should we pay even more tax. I agree it would be beneficial to be green but do you really believe that money will be used for environmental purposes because i sure as heck dont. If you want to pay towards being green do it yourself through a charity set up for such a purpose as the money will go to better use.

            As for the EU trying to take freedoms away, i dont buy that one for a second. As someone who has studied business i understand that the European government is trying to make us more competitive with the other trading blocks to the East where generally employment costs are much lower and to the West where we are competing with the United States a much bigger country all under one government. Whilst i dont agree with many of the policies brought in by the EU i do understand why they are trying to create unity. The problem here in the EU however is that as has been stated their is too much history, too many barriers to do this effectively and this is before i even get started on the euro.
            Typically governments could control recessions by two means. One being decreasing interest rates to stimulate sales and the other off the top of my head i cant recall. The point here though is that all the countries that switched to the Euro can no longer do this barring one as they have no control with which to do so. Germany of course is the exception as they control the interest rates, hence them being along with other non Euro countries the ones bailing everybody out at the moment. It basically means when things go bad for those countries they are really bad and they have to be bailed out as they cant fix the problems themselves.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
              we true Europeans
              What's your definition of a true European?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                Are you telling me that almost 50% of the Poles didn't care enough to even go to the polls on such an important decision? If you don't use your freedom (like the right to vote) I am not sure you deserve that freedom, but you DEFINITELY don't have the right to complain after the vote.
                How the EU works isn't a secret and in 2004, the internet was widely available to people in Poland. So if you tell that people in Poland didn't know what they were voting for, are you telling me that your own people are ignorant or stupid?
                2004 was before the EU constitution, before the Lisbon treaty. Certainly not the same EU as today. They did not vote for the institution which will be dictating us how much sugar we can produce and for how much it can be sold, or what kind of lightbulb I can screw in my bathroom. That goes against the basic rules of a free market and democracy.
                Besides, what's the point in voting when right at the beginning we were told that they will have us vote until we come up with the right answer. Only then the voting will stop.
                Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                As for the picture you posted, I have no idea where you got it. I have never seen it anywhere before. I'd be grateful for a link to the website, so I could check for myself, what the EU has been posting there.

                Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                what I like to think of as the "United States of Europe"
                Long before you were born the term was cornered by one of the founding fathers of Bolshevik revolution, certain Lev Davidovich Bronshtein better known as Leon Trotsky

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Peter_K View Post
                  What's your definition of a true European?
                  For me, a true European is someone who realizes that in an increasingly inter-connected, globalized world the only chance that any country in Europe has to retain political and economic importance beyond its own borders is to join forces (demographic, social, economic, financial, scientific, diplomatic and military) with the other European countries to further European interests rather than bow to the interests of Asia, North and South America (and maybe even soon Africa).
                  True Europeans also know that closing ties with their neighboring countries prevents wars and I think the advantages of that need not be spelled out.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    [QUOTE=Peter Kesternich;601764]...I'll get back to this quote in a minute...



                    Of course, I am talking about the EU after WW2. Actually that's what I said further up. As for history repeating itself, may I ask how soon do you think the southern states will again secede from the United States?



                    Here we go... *lol... it is okay to see things just one way as long as I see it the FOX way??? You were the one who just previoulsy wrote:
                    And at the risk of repeating myself: Greece and Spain DO NOT want to leave the EU, because the European Union is the only hope they have to avoid a total financial disaster.



                    Who told you that and where is proof for this claim? And don't tell me it's 'common knowledge'. Oh - and while I am at it: why do YOU think Poland voted to be part of the EU?



                    Well - I sure hope, that once the European Union becomes fully established, we would have better social services and schools than the US

                    Social Service = Government run things thus = Soviet Union style. It will never work, social services bring debt to states/countries.



                    I have been to 42 countries so far, including spending a year living and studying in the USA in 1993/1994 and revisiting the USA thirteen times for vacation since then, travelling to 35 different states in the course of these trips. So, I think I know a bit about the US of A.

                    Ah so you like what the US has to offer if you have been so many times. You like the way US is run, it's nice to visit US the best free country in the world, make trouble and then go back to EU


                    No borders - nothing wrong with that. One currency - nothing wrong with that either (we know that if it succeeds it will scare the Americans a lot). One history - we already have that (it started about 3000 years ago). One language??? Who told you that? Have you ever been to the European Parliament for example? Well - there, all debates are translated into each member country's official language, so that Polish delegates can listen in their language to what somebody from Portugal or Malta has to say.

                    There is a lot of problem with no border's, bunch of security issues, one set of people will move in on your territory and establish their rules and wont follow yours, and war starts. One bad history, nothing good so far, all that is illusions for now. EU is an illusion.

                    Raising prices through taxes will not solve the CO2 problem all by itself. But it's an incentive to do something about it. Here's an example: Drastically raising prices (through increased taxes) on tobacco products has been very successful in decreasing the number of smokers, especially teenage smokers.

                    People who want to smoke will always smoke. This tobacco tax is the dumbest think some one came up with. What will the Gov tax if every one stop smoking? The gov made more money on tobacco being at regular prices then hiking up tax. Any way hunger, poverty, wars each one of them kills more people than tobacco. Why wont the politicians raise taxes for Poverty, hunger,wars and try to save people that way. Oh wait they did and this is why people are poor, hungry and killing each other.[/B]

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      EU Commission freezes airline carbon emissions law

                      BRUSSELS, Nov 12 (Reuters) - The European Union will freeze for a year its rule that all airlines must pay for their carbon emissions for flights into and out of EU airports, the EU executive said, following threats of international retaliation.

                      Flights within the European Union will still have to pay for their carbon emissions. The year-long exemption will apply to flights linking EU airports to countries outside of the bloc.

                      Climate Commissioner Connie Hedegaard said she had agreed "to stop the clock" to create a positive atmosphere for international talks on an alternative global plan to tackle airline emissions.

                      "But let me be very clear: if this exercise does not deliver - and I hope it does - then needless to say we are back to where we are today with the EU ETS. Automatically."

                      The United States, China and India have put intense pressure on the European Union. Debate in the U.S. Congress is set to resume this week on legislation to counter the EU rules.
                      Reuters

                      It seems that the EU commission is starting to show some common sense.
                      TAP - Transportes Aéreos Portugueses

                      Voe mais alto. Fly higher.

                      www.flytap.com

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                      • #26
                        No. Just a spectacular defeat of another silly idea. Of course the European carriers will still have to pay it, so brace for another round of even more spectacular bankruptcies.

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