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PIA becomes the latest ex-747 operator

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  • PIA becomes the latest ex-747 operator

    An era has ended at PK who operated 747s from 1976 uptill 7 November when AP-BFY their last 747-300 flew a domestic flight Islamabad-Karachi, last international flight was Jeddah-Islamabad a post Hajj service, revised schedules are completely clear of 747 operations, it was expected the aircraft might fly till March but thats not the case now.

    PIA had operated self owned:

    six used 747-200 Pratt & Whitney engined
    two brand new 747-200 Comb General Electric engined
    six used 747-300 Rolls Royce engined

    They had also leased one 747-200 General Electric engined for one year and operated it as an LCC service called PIA Express with a different basic livery featuring Express titles.


  • #2
    The aircraft is now being used as a standby till additional 77Ws start arriving from March.

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    • #3
      Just out of curiosity where are these additional 77Ws coming from. I wasnt aware of any outstanding orders with Boeing so unless I missed something they must be second hand.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by SAMRPICS View Post
        Just out of curiosity where are these additional 77Ws coming from. I wasnt aware of any outstanding orders with Boeing so unless I missed something they must be second hand.
        Maybe leased? Or maybe they need to be purchased still?

        But who would sell brand new 777's? That's like, "I bought this car, but maybe someone else will want it more."
        I'm the guy... Porter Guy

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        • #5
          Originally posted by porter guy View Post
          But who would sell brand new 777's? That's like, "I bought this car, but maybe someone else will want it more."
          Haha, AirIndia!
          Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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          • #6
            Wait! Wait! OK, if I am correct, LUNN has stated in the past that PIA was under new management, (Gulf Air, IIRC...). Maybe they are footing the bill, or the lease is being arranged by them. Do they have any 777s on order?
            Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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            • #7
              I had been thinking maybe Emirates or if they were non ER or 200ER then perhaps they would be coming from Singapore but they are reported to be 77W which rules out SQ and Emirates has pushed back retirement dates of its 77W so makes me think its not them either.

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              • #8
                No they are 5 brand new self ordered a couple of years ago, the privatisation has been put off till later this year, no idea who is interested anymore, hope its Qatar Airways, we need some one like Akber.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LUNN View Post
                  No they are 5 brand new self ordered a couple of years ago, the privatisation has been put off till later this year, no idea who is interested anymore, hope its Qatar Airways, we need some one like Akber.
                  I have yet to see QR take a keen and concerted effort in investing in other carriers.

                  Case in point - the following;

                  In this article (dated 2012) we get a sense of carriers that they would potentially invest in;
                  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...aker-says.html

                  Closely held Qatar Air is also interested in investing in India, though overseas carriers currently face hurdles that make such a move impractical, Al Baker said at the Bahrain briefing.

                  “The climate for airlines to invest in India should be conducive to proper business processes,” he said. “We will not go to India just to be a partner -- we are going to help them become more profitable, to get further investment, further capital, but we also need a return. We’re a business entity.”
                  Admittedly, the article highlighted QR's investment in Cargolux, but also suggested that the carrier was interested in carriers such as Spanair, SAS, and TAP. Little of nothing came to those airlines from QR eventually.

                  His comment about Indian investments is more prudent than perhaps most other investors in the industry have offered/preformed. From an investor's point of view - he is right, and his frustrations are commonly cited as the primary limitations of foreign investors to Indian industries, most notably aviation. However, despite these limitations - EY has invested heavily in JetAirways. QR, prudent and purposeful, has yet to invest.

                  http://www.arabianbusiness.com/qatar...eo-544196.html

                  Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker says the airline is again pursuing acquisitions after revealing it rejected stakes in Olympic Airlines, Air Seychelles, Air Serbia and Alitalia – the latter three of which are now linked to rival carrier Etihad, it was reported.
                  This other article (dated May 2014), shows QR's reluctance to invest in the same ways that EY has.

                  It brings us to another matter - what exactly is EY's investment stratergy for it's growing portfolio? We've certainly seen the money - now where is the brawn of those purses? How is EY guarding their investments? How is EY commanding said investments?

                  I think that QR is more concerned with their growth, and investing in a deserving airline that can itself turn a profit, and integrate into QR's network well. Can PIA do that? Is PIA capable of shaking the systemic corruption and severe issues at the airline - to be profitable (without major failure recognition and changes and/or bankruptcy without state guaranteed protection) and then well integrated into the QR fleet enough to not be much of a distraction to QR's operation and investors.

                  EY would be the better option for PIA's investment, for PIA. QR seems as if it is genuinely interested in growing a carrier, and PIA is seemingly incapable of said necessary changes without dramatic changes.

                  Interestingly enough, the best investor for PIA might indeed be EK. Considering their past (with PIA investing, creating, and training EK at their founding, and getting them off of the ground), it would be an ample response to a carrier that they already have a legacy with. If EK is capable of doing what they did successfully with Sri Lankan, I can see that as the best possible outcome for PIA. A management contract, specific goals, re-allignment of services to accurately reflect/capatilize upon a more clear and refined market, and an ego that was external of the airline thus making sound decisions about future, needs and ways of improvement.

                  EK has strong ties to Pakistan, and though it may well position PIA as a more regional entity, we can look at the successes of Sri Lankan and trust that EK once did (and might well still be able to) invest well, and ensure results. The same is unproven at EY, and non-existent at QR.
                  Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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                  • #10
                    Like I said in another topic invester can run the airline as they like with full control, so that might be attractive to QR, in the past to they had gifted Pak govt. with an A310 from the Amiri fleet, to win more frequencies it was even rumored they wanted a stake in PIA, that time ME carriers were restricted to just thrice weekly service to Lahore, Islamabad and Peshawar and a stake in PK might have benifitted them but it was in 2007, things have changed since, the carriers now fly almost daily to these three cities and have even gained more routes, some launched already.

                    That said you are right about QR and that EK would work out better for PIA.

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                    • #11
                      The 747 is flying scheduled on Saudi routes since a while.

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                      • #12
                        Flew to Hodaidah in Yemen few days back to bring Pakistani's from there.

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