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  • Kudos to Airbus

    yeah, that's right, i'm complimenting them.

    flew on the new to AA A320B and have to say i was impressed. flew in first, which is really biz class, but since it was a domestic flight AA bills it as a 1st class cabin.

    seats were comfy and had good support. still no foot rest, the lack of which escapes and confounds me. cabin was roomy and felt larger. IFE system was ok. my complaint is with the design of the controller, which tucks out of the way like older models. very unintuitive setup and navigating the screen menus was a pain in the ass.i'd love to meet the designers and ask them to explain how they thought their system made sense.

    probably the best part of this plane is the loo. BOEING!!!! ARE YOU LISTENING???? airbus managed to make a bathroom that isn't claustrophobically small. you can actually turn around without bumping a wall or the door. it's not cavernous by any stretch of the imagination, but it works and is comfortable.

    aside from the above, it's an airplane.

  • #2
    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
    ...BOEING!!!! ARE YOU LISTENING????...
    I think both manufacturers make big aluminum cylinders.

    However, I tend to give the airlines more of the credit for what they shove inside of them.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
      I think both manufacturers make big aluminum cylinders.

      However, I tend to give the airlines more of the credit for what they shove inside of them.
      Actually, old chap, they make aluminIum cylinders ! Its an English thing you know ! LOL.
      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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      • #4
        Aren't the cylinders sometimes made of cheap composites?
        Be alert! America needs more lerts.

        Eric Law

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        • #5
          Do the airplane manufacturers design the bathrooms themselves or do they get them from some cabin interior supplier, possibly as specified by the airline? I recently flew on a Delta A330 and the bathroom I got to use was barely big enough to turn around in.

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          • #6
            Manufacturers try to make the plane more comfortable and then it's the job of the airlines to trade that added comfort in for more cramped capacity.

            When the 777 was launched it was announced like the result of the largest passenger survey ever. The plane was designed for 9 across (2-5-2 or 3-3-3) with wider seats than those in the 747. Airlines quickly requested narrower seats to cramp one more across to make the 3-4-3.

            When Boeing launched the 787, they offered it with seats that were wide than those of the 767 it was replacing. They explained that the composite construction allowed to less width to be allocated for the structure, and more fore the seats. This was the only option they offered, but one airline requested narrower seats to fit one more across. Boeing said ok and all the rest of the airlines followed suit.

            The same goes with toilets: "Hey, if we cut just half an inch form the seat pitch and 5 inches from each lavatory, we can add 2 more rows, which since we already cramped them to 10 across, give us 20 more seats!!!". That's how we got to 29" seat pitch and lavs that you can barely enter walking sideways.

            Now there is a tendency for the airlines to add a new class, named something like "economy plus" or "comfort economy", which is basically what economy was before cramping it up. Of course, it's better marketing to call the old economy "economy plus" than the new economy "cramped economy".

            Unfortunately there is not much that the manufacturers can do about this, because if they reject the requested change then the competitor accepting it will be the most competitive option, and then the selected one. The only way would be with, either an oligopoly where Boeing and Airbus agree to minimum comfort standards, which would be illegal, or via government regulations, which are nonexistent regarding passenger comfort or even dignity. Did you know that no FAR requires that an airplane with 400 seats has even one toilet installed (not to mention one in working order)?

            Fortunately, there are some things that the airlines can't modify, like the larger windows or the more beefy pressure vessel that allows for lower cabin altitudes (something that Boeing didn't negotiate even when they could have saved a few kilos for the airlines to turn into a bit more of fuel -and hence range- or payload).

            So, if you found the interior of that Airbus to be more comfty than others, praise the airline, they deserve it.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #7
              I have to disagree with the comments made about premium economy and that that's how economy used to be.
              When I fly long haul I try to use an airline that has premium economy and pay for that bit more extra comfort unless I can afford business class. So far this has meant flying Virgin Atlantic to/from Shanghai, Thomson Airways to/from Dominican Republic and BA to/from Barbados. Virgin were the best, thomson were very good especially as they are a charter service and BA was crap. These airlines typically have 37" to 38" seat pitch, a wider seat, increased recline, increased baggage allowance and a better meal service...apart from BA who just give you the legroom. Everything else was standard economy service ! I'm flying Cathay Pacific next May to Manila, Phillippines via Hong Kong in their premium economy cabin. From all the reports that I read I'm thoroughly looking forward to that service.
              These services are much better than any old style economy class service that I have ever experienced......but BA ! Dear God, do they have some work to do !
              Last edited by brianw999; 2014-10-12, 17:24.
              If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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              • #8
                2 things:

                1) flew BA in PE last month to the UK and was not all that upset with it, especially for the price. shit, compared to AA cattle class for $200 less, it was worlds better.

                2) it would be nice if someone gave a rat's ass about pax comfort. someone. anyone. Bueller???

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                  2) it would be nice if someone gave a rat's ass about pax comfort. someone. anyone. Bueller???
                  You get what you pay for. If you want to to be pampered and sleep in a bed, cough up the money or save your mileage. The public at large has determined that low fares are more motivating to them than almost anything else. We're living in the era of no frills domination as far as airline flying goes.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                    You get what you pay for. If you want to to be pampered and sleep in a bed, cough up the money or save your mileage. The public at large has determined that low fares are more motivating to them than almost anything else. We're living in the era of no frills domination as far as airline flying goes.
                    The public at large doesn't know what's good for it. Therefore, the Government should take care of that for them...
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                      You get what you pay for. If you want to to be pampered and sleep in a bed, cough up the money or save your mileage. The public at large has determined that low fares are more motivating to them than almost anything else. We're living in the era of no frills domination as far as airline flying goes.
                      i disagree with this assertion that the public has caused this. please provide me with some real evidence that there was a large outcry or boycott of airlines that has led to the ridiculous level of cramping and crammin every single conceivable seat into airplanes to make them more profitable to fly FOR THE AIRLINES.

                      sure, the number of people flying has increased, but so has the population in general. we are a much more mobile--out of necessity--species now than 30 years ago, a time when air travel was faaaaaarrrrrr better than today.

                      do we accept the horrid condition we are forced into? yeah, but not because the alternatives are so much better.

                      face it, airlines are pushing until they can't push any more. the fact that many if not most keep flying doesn't prove that we asked for it or that we even accept it. it just means that we begrudgingly allow the gross indignation because we have no choice. but dont think for one minute that the deplorable conditions we are forced into dont cause a lot of the air rage.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                        ..........flew BA in PE last month to the UK and was not all that upset with it, especially for the price. shit, compared to AA cattle class for $200 less, it was worlds better.......
                        Well, yes. But then, anything would be better than AA economy ! If you've never used PE before then the BA service comes as a nice surprise with the legroom. They are supposed to be improving their PE service but when I used them the seats were standard economy seats and the meal service was standard economy. The only good thing was that we were paying BA staff preferential rates courtesy of our ex BA cabin crew fellow travellers.
                        One tip to bear in mind with BA if you are booked on economy is that it's worth asking if they are offering any PE upgrade deals. We paid an extra £100 per seat outbound to Barbados and £50 per seat on a two-for-one basis inbound.
                        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                          i disagree with this assertion that the public has caused this. please provide me with some real evidence that there was a large outcry or boycott of airlines that has led to the ridiculous level of cramping and crammin every single conceivable seat into airplanes to make them more profitable to fly FOR THE AIRLINES.
                          I agree with much of your sentiment but are you seriously trying to say that just because there's no "outcry or boycott" there's no pricing pressure on the airlines?

                          When a gas station is selling gas for $3.75 a gallon and the one across the street is selling it for $3.65, there's no outcry or boycott. There are just longer lines at the station across the street.

                          Likewise the pricing pressure on the airlines usually isn't overt - it takes the form of people searching on travelocity.com, clicking "sort by price", and selecting the flight at the top of the list.
                          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                          Eric Law

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                          • #14
                            It's completely the opposite for me. I actively boycott Ryanair, Easyjet and the sardine can charter airlines because they are so cramped. Not only that but by the time you choose a seat, pay for your checked bags, buy something to eat etc. they really aren't that much cheaper if at all.
                            As an example.... I priced BA/GB Airways (full scheduled service), EasyJet and Air Malta for a trip to/from Malta. This was before BA/GB Airways sold out to EasyJet.
                            The best price, and incidentally the best flight timings was Air Malta followed by BA/GB Airways with EasyJet coming out as the most expensive.
                            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                              It's completely the opposite for me. I actively boycott Ryanair, Easyjet and the sardine can charter airlines because they are so cramped.
                              If what you've posted about your size is true, even EK's First Class seats would likely feel cramped.

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