Air France: Out of gas? Ask passengers to pitch in

[Graham2001]

PARIS (AP) - An emergency layover in Syria's capital was bad enough. Then passengers on Air France Flight 562 were asked to open their wallets to check if they had enough cash to pay for more fuel.

http://www.9news.com/money/283558/34...rs-to-pitch-in


I'd also seen a similar story in an Air-Safety book:

In 1990, a Paraguayan flight to Brussels planned to refuel in Africa. Its crew mistook Conkaray for Dakar where the airlines credit card was unacceptable. The plane could only take off when the crew borrowed $7000 from a passenger to buy fuel.

The Final Call, Stephen Barlay, Arrow, 1990, pg210

[Peter Kesternich]

Sometimes I think that all journalists care about these days are headlines, no matter whether they have anything to do with the story or not.

The really interesting question in this incident is: Why did the flight not divert straight to Cyprus?

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Peter Kesternich

Sometimes I think that all journalists care about these days are headlines, no matter whether they have anything to do with the story or not.

The really interesting question in this incident is: Why did the flight not divert straight to Cyprus?

Some C-172 pilot called me names when I asked exactly that question in some other forum.

[Peter Kesternich]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Some C-172 pilot called me names when I asked exactly that question in some other forum.

A C-172 pilot? *lol... What objections did the learnéd expert have to the question?

But seriously... The distance from Beirut to Larnaca is about twice the distance from Beirut to Damascus, so fuel might have been an issue. If that was the case, that information should have been in the article, because otherwise the uninformed public might think that the Air France pilots chose Damascus randomly as their alternate.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Peter Kesternich

A C-172 pilot? *lol... What objections did the learnéd expert have to the question?

These ones:

Originally Posted by Some C-172 pilot

why don't you quit the expelitive arm-chair/Monday-morning QBing judgemental attitude...

You were not present and have no idea of the factors affecting these pilots.

Go do some stalls in your Tommahawk, and maybe the engine will fail and you can see how cool it is to crash under control.

Originally Posted by Peter

But seriously... The distance from Beirut to Larnaca is about twice the distance from Beirut to Damascus, so fuel might have been an issue. If that was the case, that information should have been in the article, because otherwise the uninformed public might think that the Air France pilots chose Damascus randomly as their alternate.

Well, twice the distance and all, it's still quite close.
I wonder what Air France filled as the "official" alternate, because they were supposed to have enough fuel to fly to Beirut + 10% + Full instrument approach procedure + Missing approach + Beirutr to alternate + 30 minutes. If that was not enough for the some 150 NM (less than half an hour) to Larnaca, they were in deep shit already.

And then, they had Ben Gurion (Tel Aviv, Israel) at about the same distance than Damascus. I understand that a flight bound for an arab country and then diverting to Israel might be a problem, but then Syria can only be a bigger problem.

[Peter Kesternich]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

(...)
I wonder what Air France filled as the "official" alternate, because they were supposed to have enough fuel to fly to Beirut + 10% + Full instrument approach procedure + Missing approach + Beirutr to alternate + 30 minutes. If that was not enough for the some 150 NM (less than half an hour) to Larnaca, they were in deep shit already.

Well - might also be possible that Larnaca had a weather problem precluding its use as an alternate.

Originally Posted by Gabriel

(...)And then, they had Ben Gurion (Tel Aviv, Israel) at about the same distance than Damascus. I understand that a flight bound for an arab country and then diverting to Israel might be a problem, but then Syria can only be a bigger problem.

Well, I honestly believe that flying a plane-load of people intended for Beirut to Tel Aviv instead would be a bigger problem than stopping in Damascus. Even these days.

[Gabriel]

[quote=Peter Kesternich;599801Well, I honestly believe that flying a plane-load of people intended for Beirut to Tel Aviv instead would be a bigger problem than stopping in Damascus. Even these days.[/quote]
As said, I understand that it might be problematic.
But given this context:

The layover was awkward for Air France, the flagship carrier for a country whose government toes a hard line against Syrian President Bashar Assad — and warns all its citizens to avoid or leave Syrian soil. France, which once ruled Syria and Lebanon, championed European Union-wide economic sanctions on Syria — including its national airline, Syria Air. Air France operated regular flights to Damascus until suspending them amid violence earlier this year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10397109

And the fact that there is a full-blown civil war over there, I think that Ben Gurion, with it's cons and all, would still be a safer option. Air France has a base there that operates several flights everyday, so fuel, accommodation for the passengers, etc would have not been a problem. And at any rate, it would have been safer.

Maybe Israel would have resisted the diversion first, but I don't think that they would have stopped it if an emergency was declared.

The situation was bad enough in Damascus that, after getting fuel, they did fly to Cyprus for an overnight layover until the conditions (political) improved in Beirut. So even if the passengers could not disembark in Ben Gurion for lack of visa, it was a good option for a fuel stop with nobody leaving the plane, and then waiting or diverting to Cyprus for the overnight layover.

All that said, the pilots surely didn't just say, "oh, let's go to Damascus". Surely there was some consideration about where to go and things like those above and others must have come in play. We don't have the full picture that the pilots had.

[TheKiecker]

Why were they " out of gas " If an AF crew member asked me to chip in, Id respond with " What is THIS ?"

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by TheKiecker

Why were they " out of gas "?

They were not out of gas.
They had enough fuel to skip their destination and fly to an alternate.
They needed more fuel for the subsequent flight.

If the alternative was to be left stranded in Damascus (in the present situation), even if reluctantly I would no doubt put my share for the fuel bill.

[Peter Kesternich]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

They were not out of gas.
They had enough fuel to skip their destination and fly to an alternate.
They needed more fuel for the subsequent flight.

If the alternative was to be left stranded in Damascus (in the present situation), even if reluctantly I would no doubt put my share for the fuel bill.

And I am pretty certain you would have been reimbursed by Air France after the episode. It was not like they were running out of money or anything...

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Peter Kesternich

... you would have been reimbursed by Air France after the episode.

Yes, that's why I would have accepted to contribute with my money