Host-he loses it on muti-delayed flight. - JetPhotos.Net Forums

3WE · 06-29-2012, 10:34 PM

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...54.html?_esi=0&

Quote:

Originally Posted by Host-he

If you have enough balls you can get off the plane

So, your company (and the US aerospace system) has royally screwed over a plane load of passengers. Maybe it's not your companies fault, nor your fault, but they have been messed over- and messed over BAD!

How do you handle them?

My thought is to be REAL apologetic.

But maybe you are burnt out because your company SYSTEMATICALLY screws folks over....'you' routinely string them along on delays, give out flamingly inaccurate delay information, 'you' offer no sympathy that they miss connections, important business meetings, weddings, 'you' HAVE thier money and a bit list of legal crap about what you owe them for that money (not much...a promise to take them to where they wanted to go within 24 hours of the scheduled departure [/potential parlor exaggeration] (again, maybe it's not you personally, but 'you' the company)

So, some questions to our pros...

Do you feel that circumstances sometimes (perhaps too often) royally screw your customers?

Does that make you sympathetic and apologetic?

OR

Do you think "too expeletive bad", this is what you get for your cheap ass internet fare?

OR

Do you feel helpless because your executive bean counters and their spreadsheets and stupid ideas on how to save money by pinching pennies (without quality input from you)....and is it that helplessness from above that makes you say, "just screw it- I'm not enjoying this crap either (again "to bleeping bad")

AA 1818 · 07-02-2012, 04:51 PM

To offer a humble opinion;

1). Yes, there are a lot of times and circumstances when passengers get royally screwed, and that's often highly situation and circumstances based. It would be nice to be able to pay more individual attention to customers/passengers but that's really difficult to do, because you're constantly working with things that happen in massive numbers (such as weather delays, or a flight delay that causes 10+ missed connections) and you're constantly running against the clock (I've to fix this, and I have to do it now, because this solution will expire soon). In the better days, management at the companies that I've worked for would not turn a blind eye (or at least pretend not to) to errors and issues that happened often enough to not be considered 'rare'. If they say a major problem, they would at least try to fix it, and in some cases, speak with the actual staff dealing with the issues, and help them in ways that seemed appropriate.

I'll offer an example. At Terminal C, at ATL, there were gates 13 and 13A (I might be wrong, because it might be 12 and 12A), and it became a freaking nightmare. Passengers would try to board one, instead of trying to board another. There was always chaos. It was begged time and time again (by employees) to have the gate renamed/changed. One day, a senior VP made a statement, at a meeting, discussing the issue, and it was great - if only to have those concerns acknowledged. The VP explained that as we expanded operations, and held more gates at the tip of D concourse, we would alleviate some of the major use at the gate. It wasn't a great victory, but it was one nonetheless.

2). Working in customer/passenger service - I've lost all compassion for those that do not read their reservation and/or rules and fees applied. Don't give me your excuses unless they're pertinent - and my motto is 'a lack of planning on your part, does not constitute a personal emergency on mine'. You chose to book a $150.00 fare, with , don't read your itinerary, and leave yourself only 1 hour to connect through the airport. Great! You have to switch carriers as well, that's going to shave off some time. You're travelling with your child, and you wanted to stop and get something to eat - that's going to shave off more time. You decided on the way here, that you needed to stop and get something from a shop - shaving off more time. You arrive at the gate at 6 minutes before departure time, and the jetbridge is already retracted. You start screaming, you want me to pull the plane back in. You start offering excuses - my travel agent didn't explain the short time, I had to feed my child, blah blah blah. You should have been logical and thought of this earlier. Walk with a snack before hand, hurry to the gate, or better yet - book a longer connection time from the get go. The only thing in my control (as a gate agent) is getting that plane out on time. Your $150.00 fare is keeping this airline in a super-competitive state, thus the strict time schedules. Don't give me the sob story, it is your fault. Don't threathen me - that's not going to help your cause. And, don't make my day by saying that 'You're never going to fly me again' - go make someone else's day with your lack of planning and time management skills.

3). It all boils down to your last point. I mean, I always feel that way - as if yeah, I am dealing with a horrible situation, I have nothing that I can offer the passenger/customer that they want (and there in lies another problem - people always want to pay dirt and when it doesn't go their way, they want me to bring the damn Moon from the sky and lay it at their feet), because they always have larger-than-life expectations. And, at the same time, management, is (at best) non-responsive to these issues. I mean, my direct boss will get his/her feet held to the fire from time to time, but past that point, the others are always shocked by 'how bad things are'.

In the end, I don't get paid enough, I am not a fu*king punching bad, you get what you pay for, and the golden rule - calm down and treat me like a human being, and I'll be more than happy to do everything that I can to help you. If you act like a child, I'll treat you like one. Act like a threat (threaten to harm, injure or kill me - oh, and it happens almost daily), and I'll treat you like a threat.

To add to the clip, just consider a logical standpoint - if he can't control them on the ground, what control would he have over them in the air? If they rioted in-flight, what the hell could he do? It's an RJ, so there's only one FA, and a back of the aircraft full of disrespectful jerks.

Here's another clip to show a typical bad situation and how passengers/customers take it to extremes, and how it's 'your job' to just 'take it'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2KTqtNW9_U

TeeVee · 07-02-2012, 08:09 PM

I'm with the FA on this one, and so is, AA, or at least it appears to be.

delays happen. and because of the former, conexions are missed, meeting are missed, yet life goes on. i travel very frequently and i make sure to leave myself ridiculous amounts of time. i never book a flight the same day i have to be somewhere, even if it costs me more in lost work time.

as for reading the rules, sorry aa1818, those rules are not understandable. here is a sample of just aa's rules for a r/t domestic flight:

Detailed Fare Rules

The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply.

City Pair	Fare Basis Code	Flight
MIA to LGA	SA07ERP1 (Displayed Below)	1124 MIA to LGA
LGA to MIA	QA21ERP1 View rules	1621 LGA to MIA

SA07ERP1

Seasonality	Not Applicable
Day Time Application	Not Applicable
Advance Reservation Ticketing Restrictions	RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE. WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED. TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED BY MIDNIGHT 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER. NOTE - ///---///---///---///---///---///---///---/// 1. STANDBY - A. AADVANTAGE EXECUTIVE PLATINUM/ PLATINUM/ GOLD PASSENGERS AND THEIR ONEWORLD EQUIVALENTS AND AA CONCIERGE KEY AND AAIRPASS MEMBERS TICKETED WITH ANY FARE MAY STANDBY WITHOUT CHARGE AS NOTED BELOW. B. PASSENGERS NOT QUALIFYING BY TIER STATUS AS DESCRIBED ABOVE WHO PURCHASED TICKETS FOR FIRST OR BUSINESS CLASS OR COACH FARES BOOKED IN Y/B/H/D/I/A/P INVENTORIES MAY STANDBY WITHOUT CHARGE AS NOTED BELOW. WHEN TICKETED WITH ANY OTHER COACH FARES THESE PASSENGERS MAY USE CONFIRMED FLIGHT CHANGE. ///---///---///---///---///---///---///---///---// STANDBY CONDITIONS FOR ELIGIBLE PASSENGERS - 1. PASSENGERS MUST BE HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVA- TIONS AND TICKETS FOR FLIGHTS OPERATED BY AMERICAN AIRLINES/ AMERICAN EAGLE OR AMERICAN CONNECTION 2. STANDBY IS PERMITTED FOR EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY AA NONSTOP AND/OR CONNECTING FLIGHTS BETWEEN THE SAME ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AIRPORTS PROVIDED THE ROUTING IS APPLICABLE FOR THE FARE CHARGED. 3. WHEN TICKETED TO/FROM HOU/NYC/WAS - CHECK FLIGHT APPLICATION FOR ANY AIRPORT RESTRICTION. ///---///---///---///---///---///---///---///---// 2. SAME DAY - CONFIRMED FLIGHT CHANGE/CFC/- PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS IN INVENTORIES K/M/L/W/V/G/S/N/Q/O MAY CONFIRM TRAVEL ON AN ALTERNATE FLIGHT FOR A NONREFUNDABLE FEE /SEE AA.COM FOR DETAILS/ WITHIN 12 HOURS OF THE ALTERNATE FLIGHT/S DEPARTURE TIME BASED ON THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS --- A.THERE IS NO CHANGE TO THE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVER POINTS. B.NEW FLIGHT/S/ AND ROUTING ARE PERMITTED PER THE TICKETED FARE RULE. C.ALL TRAVEL IS ON AMERICAN AIRLINES/ AMERICAN EAGLE AND AMERICAN CONNECTION. D.REQUESTS ARE MADE VIA AIRPORT SELF-SERVICE CHECK-IN/ TICKET COUNTERS /INCLUDING ADMIRALS CLUBS AND PREMIUM SERVICES/ OR BY CALLING AA RESERVATIONS. E.CHANGES PERMITTED TO OUTBOUND OR CONTINUING/ RETURN FLIGHTS. F.CONFIRMATION IS SUBJECT TO AVAILABILITY. G.ALTERNATE FLIGHT IS ON SAME TICKETED DATE. ///--///--///--///--///--///--///--///--///--/// PASSENGERS TICKETED IN Y/B/H INVENTORIES MAY CONFIRM TRAVEL WITHIN 12 HOURS OF THE ALTERNATE FLIGHT/S DEPARTURE TIME FREE OF CHARGE FOLLOWING THE ABOVE CONDITIONS. ///--///--///--///--///--///--///--///--///--/// REQUESTS MADE MORE THAN 12 HOURS IN ADVANCE OF THE ALTERNATE FLIGHT/S DEPARTURE TIME WILL BE PROCESSED FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES FOR RESERVATION CHANGES/ WHICH INCLUDE COLLECTION OF APPLICABLE CHANGE FEES PLUS DIFFERENCE IN FARE. SEE PENALTIES
Surcharges	IF INFANT 0-1 WITHOUT A SEAT. THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL FARE COMPONENT. OTHERWISE A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 16NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 17NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 20NOV 12 THROUGH 21NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 24NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 46.51 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 25NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 26NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 19DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 20DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 21DEC 12 THROUGH 22DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 23DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 26DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 28DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 29DEC 12 THROUGH 30DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 02JAN 13. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 05JAN 13. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 06JAN 13. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS.
Maximum Stay	Not Applicable
Eligibility	Not Applicable
Sales Restrictions	TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED BY MAIL/PTA. PTA CONSTITUTES TICKETING. TICKETS MAY NOT BE SOLD IN VENEZUELA.
Flight Applications	Not Applicable
Minimum Stay	Not Applicable
Embargo Dates	Not Applicable
Penalties	CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - TICKET HAS NO VALUE UNLESS PASSENGER CANCELS TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATIONS PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME. CHANGES CHARGE USD 150.00 FOR REISSUE. NOTE - IF PASSENGER CANCELS TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ TRAVEL THAT IS REBOOKED IS VALID AS FOLLOWS. 1/WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS ARE VALID PROVIDED TRAVEL COMMENCES WITHIN ONE YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE DATE OR 2/ PARTIALLY USED TICKETS ARE VALID PROVIDED TRAVEL IS COMPLETED WITHIN ONE YEAR FROM THE OUTBOUND TRAVEL DATE ON THE ORIGINAL TICKET. SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES. IF TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION IS NOT CANCELLED PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ REBOOKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND THE TICKET HAS NO VALUE. --- FARE DIFFERENCE AND SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE PAID AND TICKET MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ITINERARY IS REBOOKED. --- IF MULTIPLE CHANGES ARE MADE AT THE SAME TIME/ ONLY ONE SERVICE CHARGE WILL APPLY PER TICKET. IF FARES WITH DIFFERENT SERVICE CHARGES ARE COMBINED ON THE SAME TICKET/ THE HIGHEST CHARGE OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS WILL APPLY. --- WHENEVER A NONREFUNDABLE FARE TICKET IS REISSUED TO A REFUNDABLE FARE/ A NONREFUNDABLE NOTATION MUST BE MADE IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX OF THE NEW TICKET. THE ORIGINAL NONREFUNDABLE VALUE REMAINS NONREFUNDABLE FOR ANY SUBSEQUENT REISSUES. --- CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF AA INTERNATIONAL FARES. --- GUARANTEED AIRFARE RULE- TRANSPORTATION IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES/ FARES AND CHARGES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE/ TIME OF TICKET ISSUANCE OR PREPAID TICKET ADVICE PURCHASE. SHOULD FARES INCREASE AFTER TICKET PURCHASE/ NO INCREASE IN FARE WILL BE COLLECTED PROVIDED THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT COUPON OF THE TICKET REFLECTING A CONFIRMED RESERVATION HAS NOT BEEN VOLUNTARILY CHANGED/ AND PROVIDED THAT VOLUNTARY CHANGES FOR FLIGHT COUPONS OTHER THAN THE ORGINATING FLIGHT DO NOT REFLECT A CHANGE IN CARRIER/ FARE BASIS/ ORIGIN/ DESTINATION OR STOPOVER POINTS FROM THOSE FOUND ON THE TICKET. IF AFTER TICKET HAS BEEN ISSUED AND BEFORE ANY PORTION HAS BEEN USED EITHER A DECREASE IN THE FARES OR CHARGES APPLICABLE TO THE TRANSPORTATION SHOWN ON THE TICKET BECOMES EFFECTIVE/ OR A NEW FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER QUALIFIES IS ADDED BETWEEN THE POINTS SHOWN ON THE TICKET/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES WILL BE REFUNDED AS STATED BELOW/ IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRANSPORTATION VOUCHER/ PROVIDED A. THERE IS NO CHANGE IN TICKETED ORIGIN/ DESTINATION/ STOPOVER POINTS/ FLIGHTS/ DATES B. ALL CONDITIONS OF THE DECREASED FARES OR CHARGES OF THE NEW FARE ARE MET/ INCLUDING BOOKING CODE AND ADVANCE RESERVATIONS AND TICKETING REQUIREMENTS C. ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET DATE TO THE DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. D. THE PASSENGER WILL RECEIVE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE APPLICABLE SERVICE CHARGE IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE AA TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ISSUE. --- I. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - CHANGES TO THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT ON THE TICKET - CANCEL AND START OVER. 1. THE ENTIRE TICKET MUST BE REPRICED WITH FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE. 2. USE ANY AA FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 3. ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE I.E. ADV RSVN/MIN/MAX STAY/INVENTORY ETC MUST BE MET 4. ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO THE DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 5. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- II. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND THE LOWEST SOLUTION WILL APPLY. --- A. ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE SAME FARES AS TICKETED. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME FARE LEVEL/ SAME RULES AS TICKETED/ THAT IS/ THOSE IN EFFECT AT THE TIME THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS SOLD. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/ THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME RULE MUST BE USED AS THE REPLACEMENT FARE FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT ON THE NEW TICKET. 3.FULLY FLOWN ONE-WAY FARE MUST NOT BE REPRICED AS A HALF ROUND-TRIP FARE. 4.NEW FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO THE PREVIOUS FARE. COMPARE BASE FARE VALUES FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT TO THAT OF THE TICKETED FARE COMPONENT. 5.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 6.FLIGHT SPECIFIC FARES MUST REMAIN WITHIN THE TIMES SPECIFIED FOR THAT FARE. 7.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT. 8.SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES. --- B. CANCEL AND START OVER. REPRICE THE ITINEARY USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE. 1.USE ANY AA FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 2.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE MUST BE MET. 3.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 4.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- C. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODES AND RULES AS THOSE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUANCE FOR UNCHANGED FARE COMPONENTS AND USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/ THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED SAME FARE MUST BE USED ON THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT. 3.USE ANY AA FARES ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE TICKET DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT. 6.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY. --- III. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY- CHANGES TO THE CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A. CANCEL AND START OVER. REPRICE THE ITINEARY USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE. 1.USE ANY AA FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 2.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE MUST BE MET. 3.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 4.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- IV. AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND THE LOWEST SOLUTION WILL APPLY. --- A. ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE SAME FARES AS TICKETED. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME FARE LEVEL/ SAME RULES AS TICKETED/ THAT IS/ THOSE IN EFFECT AT THE TIME THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS SOLD. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME RULE MUST BE USED AS THE REPLACEMENT FARE FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT ON THE NEW TICKET. 3.FULLY FLOWN ONE-WAY FARE MUST NOT BE PRICED AS A HALF ROUND-TRIP FARE. 4.NEW FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO THE PREVIOUS FARE. COMPARE BASE FARE VALUES FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT TO THAT OF THE TICKETED FARE COMPONENT. 4.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 5.FLIGHT SPECIFIC FARES MUST REMAIN WITHIN THE TIMES SPECIFIED FOR THAT FARE. 6.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT. 7.SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES. --- B. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODES AND RULES AS THOSE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUANCE FOR UNCHANGED FARE COMPONENTS AND USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/ THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED SAME FARE MUST BE USED ON THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT. 3.USE ANY AA ONE-WAY FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 6.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- C. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING HISTORICAL ONE WAY FARES FROM THE PREVIOUS TICKET ISSUE DATE FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS/ IN AN EQUAL OR HIGHER BOOKING CLASS. USE FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL UNFLOWN COMPONENTS. 1.FARE BREAKS FOR THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS MAY NOT BE CHANGED. 2.USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. THE HIERARCHY IS ECONOMY CLASS - Y B H K M L W V G S N Q O BUSINESS CLASS - J D I C FIRST CLASS - F A P 3.USE ANY AA ONE WAY FARES ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARES MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 6.COMPARE THE TOTAL FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET TO THE NEW TOTAL OF THE FLOWN AND UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. 7.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY. --- V. AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING HISTORICAL ONE WAY FARES FROM THE PREVIOUS TICKET ISSUE DATE FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS/ IN AN EQUAL OR HIGHER BOOKING CLASS. USE FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL UNFLOWN COMPONENTS. 1.FARE BREAKS FOR THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS MAY NOT BE CHANGED. 2.USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. THE ARCHY IS ECONOMY CLASS - Y B H K M L W V G S N Q O BUSINESS CLASS - J D I C FIRST CLASS - F A P 3.USE ANY AA ONE WAY FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARES MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 6.COMPARE THE TOTAL FROM THE ORIGNAL TICKET TO THE NEW TOTAL OF THE FLOWN AND UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. 7.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY. --- VI. AFTER EACH TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME 1. NO CHANGES PERMITTED IF PASSENGER HAS NOT CANCELLED THE TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION. 2. TICKET HAS NO VALUE IF PASSENGER HAS NOT CANCELLED THE TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION. --- VII. IN THE CASE OF THE DEATH OF THE PASSENGER/ IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER/ OR A TRAVELING COMPANION/ THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE WAIVED OR THE TICKET REFUNDED PROVIDED A COPY OF THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS PRESENTED TO AA. REFUND WILL BE IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRANSPORTATION VOUCHER THAT MAY BE USED FOR FUTURE TRAVEL ON AA ONLY. IN THE CASE OF THE PASSENGER/S DEATH THE REFUND WILL BE TO THE PASSENGER/S ESTATE VIA THE ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. ALL REFUND REQUESTS MUST BE SENT TO AA PASSENGER REFUNDS. CANCELLATIONS PER TICKET CHARGE USD 100.00 FOR LOST TICKET. NOTE - AA WILL IMPOSE A SERVICE CHARGE PER TICKET FOR HANDLING SUCH REQUEST FOR REFUND OF A LOST TICKET. CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - TICKET HAS NO VALUE UNLESS PASSENGER CANCELS TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATIONS PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME. CHANGES CHARGE USD 150.00 FOR REISSUE. NOTE - IF PASSENGER CANCELS TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ TRAVEL THAT IS REBOOKED IS VALID AS FOLLOWS. 1/WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS ARE VALID PROVIDED TRAVEL COMMENCES WITHIN ONE YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE DATE OR 2/ PARTIALLY USED TICKETS ARE VALID PROVIDED TRAVEL IS COMPLETED WITHIN ONE YEAR FROM THE OUTBOUND TRAVEL DATE ON THE ORIGINAL TICKET. SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES. IF TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION IS NOT CANCELLED PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ REBOOKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND THE TICKET HAS NO VALUE. --- FARE DIFFERENCE AND SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE PAID AND TICKET MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ITINERARY IS REBOOKED. --- IF MULTIPLE CHANGES ARE MADE AT THE SAME TIME/ ONLY ONE SERVICE CHARGE WILL APPLY PER TICKET. IF FARES WITH DIFFERENT SERVICE CHARGES ARE COMBINED ON THE SAME TICKET/ THE HIGHEST CHARGE OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS WILL APPLY. --- WHENEVER A NONREFUNDABLE FARE TICKET IS REISSUED TO A REFUNDABLE FARE/ A NONREFUNDABLE NOTATION MUST BE MADE IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX OF THE NEW TICKET. THE ORIGINAL NONREFUNDABLE VALUE REMAINS NONREFUNDABLE FOR ANY SUBSEQUENT REISSUES. --- CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY THOSE OF AA INTERNATIONAL FARES. --- GUARANTEED AIRFARE RULE- TRANSPORTATION IS SUBJECT TO THE RULES/ FARES AND CHARGES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE/ TIME OF TICKET ISSUANCE OR PREPAID TICKET ADVICE PURCHASE. SHOULD FARES INCREASE AFTER TICKET PURCHASE/ NO INCREASE IN FARE WILL BE COLLECTED PROVIDED THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT COUPON OF THE TICKET REFLECTING A CONFIRMED RESERVATION HAS NOT BEEN VOLUNTARILY CHANGED/ AND PROVIDED THAT VOLUNTARY CHANGES FOR FLIGHT COUPONS OTHER THAN THE ORGINATING FLIGHT DO NOT REFLECT A CHANGE IN CARRIER/ FARE BASIS/ ORIGIN/ DESTINATION OR STOPOVER POINTS FROM THOSE FOUND ON THE TICKET. IF AFTER TICKET HAS BEEN ISSUED AND BEFORE ANY PORTION HAS BEEN USED EITHER A DECREASE IN THE FARES OR CHARGES APPLICABLE TO THE TRANSPORTATION SHOWN ON THE TICKET BECOMES EFFECTIVE/ OR A NEW FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER QUALIFIES IS ADDED BETWEEN THE POINTS SHOWN ON THE TICKET/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES WILL BE REFUNDED AS STATED BELOW/ IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRANSPORTATION VOUCHER/ PROVIDED A. THERE IS NO CHANGE IN TICKETED ORIGIN/ DESTINATION/ STOPOVER POINTS/ FLIGHTS/ DATES B. ALL CONDITIONS OF THE DECREASED FARES OR CHARGES OF THE NEW FARE ARE MET/ INCLUDING BOOKING CODE AND ADVANCE RESERVATIONS AND TICKETING REQUIREMENTS C. ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET DATE TO THE DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. D. THE PASSENGER WILL RECEIVE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE APPLICABLE SERVICE CHARGE IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE AA TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ISSUE. --- I. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - CHANGES TO THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT ON THE TICKET - CANCEL AND START OVER. 1. THE ENTIRE TICKET MUST BE REPRICED WITH FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE. 2. USE ANY AA FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 3. ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE I.E. ADV RSVN/MIN/MAX STAY/INVENTORY ETC MUST BE MET 4. ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO THE DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 5. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- II. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND THE LOWEST SOLUTION WILL APPLY. --- A. ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE SAME FARES AS TICKETED. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME FARE LEVEL/ SAME RULES AS TICKETED/ THAT IS/ THOSE IN EFFECT AT THE TIME THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS SOLD. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/ THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME RULE MUST BE USED AS THE REPLACEMENT FARE FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT ON THE NEW TICKET. 3.FULLY FLOWN ONE-WAY FARE MUST NOT BE REPRICED AS A HALF ROUND-TRIP FARE. 4.NEW FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO THE PREVIOUS FARE. COMPARE BASE FARE VALUES FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT TO THAT OF THE TICKETED FARE COMPONENT. 5.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 6.FLIGHT SPECIFIC FARES MUST REMAIN WITHIN THE TIMES SPECIFIED FOR THAT FARE. 7.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT. 8.SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES. --- B. CANCEL AND START OVER. REPRICE THE ITINEARY USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE. 1.USE ANY AA FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 2.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE MUST BE MET. 3.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 4.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- C. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODES AND RULES AS THOSE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUANCE FOR UNCHANGED FARE COMPONENTS AND USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/ THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED SAME FARE MUST BE USED ON THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT. 3.USE ANY AA FARES ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE TICKET DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT. 6.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY. --- III. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY- CHANGES TO THE CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A. CANCEL AND START OVER. REPRICE THE ITINEARY USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE. 1.USE ANY AA FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 2.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE MUST BE MET. 3.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 4.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- IV. AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND THE LOWEST SOLUTION WILL APPLY. --- A. ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE SAME FARES AS TICKETED. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME FARE LEVEL/ SAME RULES AS TICKETED/ THAT IS/ THOSE IN EFFECT AT THE TIME THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS SOLD. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED FARE BASIS CODE/ SAME RULE MUST BE USED AS THE REPLACEMENT FARE FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT ON THE NEW TICKET. 3.FULLY FLOWN ONE-WAY FARE MUST NOT BE PRICED AS A HALF ROUND-TRIP FARE. 4.NEW FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO THE PREVIOUS FARE. COMPARE BASE FARE VALUES FOR THE REVISED FARE COMPONENT TO THAT OF THE TICKETED FARE COMPONENT. 4.ALL RULE/BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 5.FLIGHT SPECIFIC FARES MUST REMAIN WITHIN THE TIMES SPECIFIED FOR THAT FARE. 6.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT. 7.SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES. --- B. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING THE SAME FARE BASIS CODES AND RULES AS THOSE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUANCE FOR UNCHANGED FARE COMPONENTS AND USING FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS. 1.NO CHANGE IS PERMITTED TO STOPOVER/ THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT OR FARE BREAKS. 2.THE TICKETED SAME FARE MUST BE USED ON THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT. 3.USE ANY AA ONE-WAY FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 6.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY --- C. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING HISTORICAL ONE WAY FARES FROM THE PREVIOUS TICKET ISSUE DATE FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS/ IN AN EQUAL OR HIGHER BOOKING CLASS. USE FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL UNFLOWN COMPONENTS. 1.FARE BREAKS FOR THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS MAY NOT BE CHANGED. 2.USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. THE HIERARCHY IS ECONOMY CLASS - Y B H K M L W V G S N Q O BUSINESS CLASS - J D I C FIRST CLASS - F A P 3.USE ANY AA ONE WAY FARES ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARES MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 6.COMPARE THE TOTAL FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET TO THE NEW TOTAL OF THE FLOWN AND UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. 7.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY. --- V. AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE JOURNEY - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A. REPRICE THE ITINERARY USING HISTORICAL ONE WAY FARES FROM THE PREVIOUS TICKET ISSUE DATE FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS/ IN AN EQUAL OR HIGHER BOOKING CLASS. USE FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF NEW TICKET ISSUANCE FOR ALL UNFLOWN COMPONENTS. 1.FARE BREAKS FOR THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS MAY NOT BE CHANGED. 2.USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. THE ARCHY IS ECONOMY CLASS - Y B H K M L W V G S N Q O BUSINESS CLASS - J D I C FIRST CLASS - F A P 3.USE ANY AA ONE WAY FARE ALLOWED BY COMBINATION AND REISSUE RULES. 4.ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARES MUST BE MET. 5.ADVANCE RESERVATION REQUIREMENTS ARE MEASURED FROM THE REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICING UNIT. 6.COMPARE THE TOTAL FROM THE ORIGNAL TICKET TO THE NEW TOTAL OF THE FLOWN AND UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. 7.ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE SERVICE CHARGE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA AA ONLY. --- VI. AFTER EACH TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME 1. NO CHANGES PERMITTED IF PASSENGER HAS NOT CANCELLED THE TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION. 2. TICKET HAS NO VALUE IF PASSENGER HAS NOT CANCELLED THE TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION. --- VII. IN THE CASE OF THE DEATH OF THE PASSENGER/ IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER/ OR A TRAVELING COMPANION/ THE SERVICE CHARGE MAY BE WAIVED OR THE TICKET REFUNDED PROVIDED A COPY OF THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS PRESENTED TO AA. REFUND WILL BE IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRANSPORTATION VOUCHER THAT MAY BE USED FOR FUTURE TRAVEL ON AA ONLY. IN THE CASE OF THE PASSENGER/S DEATH THE REFUND WILL BE TO THE PASSENGER/S ESTATE VIA THE ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. ALL REFUND REQUESTS MUST BE SENT TO AA PASSENGER REFUNDS. CANCELLATIONS PER TICKET CHARGE USD 100.00 FOR LOST TICKET. NOTE - AA WILL IMPOSE A SERVICE CHARGE PER TICKET FOR HANDLING SUCH REQUEST FOR REFUND OF A LOST TICKET

i sued aa for a pax several years ago based on aa's refusal to refund some money. their defense was that the rules said blah blah blah. i read the rules and sent an email to their attorney and asked him if he thought the judge would be able to understand all the shorthand, abbreviations, and techno-terms contained in the rules us dumb pax are supposed to read and agree to. they sent us a settlement check several days later.

while i agree that contracts need rules and they should apply whether you read them or not, at least make them understandable

Gabriel · 07-02-2012, 08:18 PM

My God!

As I scrolled through all that sh*t and saw an infinite amount of random unintelligible letters and numbers pass by, I felt I was in the "Matrix".

TeeVee · 07-02-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel

My God!

As I scrolled through all that sh*t and saw an infinite amount of random unintelligible letters and numbers pass by, I felt I was in the "Matrix".

jajaja! actually, those are far better than the ones that applied to my client's fare. if you wanna see some really unintelligible shyte, check out the full version of delta's fare rules. or this section of jetblue's penalties section:

Penalties

CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. RESERVATIONS MADE ONE WEEK OR MORE PRIOR TO A FLIG HTS SCHEDULED DEPARTURE MAY BE CANCELED WITHOUT PE NALTY UP TO 24 HOURS AFTER THE RESERVATION IS MADE . BEFORE DEPARTURE CHARGE USD 100.00. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. FOR RESERVATIONS MADE ON JETBLUE.COM OR THRU JETBLUE RESERVATIONS THAT ARE CANCELLED PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE A 100.00 CXL FEE WILL BE APPLIED AND THE REMAINING VALUE OF THE TICKET WILL BE PLACED IN THE CUSTOMERS TRAVEL BANK ACCOUNT AS A CREDIT FOR USE ON FUTURE TRAVEL. TRAVEL BANK FUNDS/CREDITS ARE VALID FOR 1 YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ISSUANCE AND ARE ONLY VALID FOR DIRECT BOOKINGS WITH JETBLUE. FOR RESERVATIONS MADE BY AN AGENCY THRU THE GDS THAT ARE CANCELLED PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE THE TICKET SHOULD REMAIN IN OPEN STATUS FOR USE ON FUTURE TRAVEL. THE TICKET IS GOOD FOR 1 YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ISSUANCE AND MUST BE USED BY THE ORIGINAL PASSENGER. THE AGENCY ALSO HAS THE OPTION TO REFUND THE REMAINING VALUE OF THE TICKET TO AN MCO FOR USE ON FUTURE TRAVEL AND THE MCO IS FULLY TRANSFERRABLE. AT THE TIME OF EXCHANGING THE ORIGINAL TICKET OR REFUNDING TO AN MCO THE 100.00 CHANGE FEE WOULD APPLY. AFTER DEPARTURE TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. RESERVATIONS NOT CANCELLED PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE TIME WILL BE FORFEITED. CHANGES BEFORE DEPARTURE CHARGE USD 100.00. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. FOR RESERVATIONS MADE ON JETBLUE.COM OR THRU JETBLUE RESERVATIONS THAT ARE CHANGED PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE A 100.00 CHANGE FEE WILL BE APPLIED AT THE TIME THE TICKET IS EXCHANGED. THE VALUE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET CAN BE APPLIED TO THE NEW TICKET. IF THE NEW BOOKING RESULTS IN A RESIDUAL VALUE THAT AMOUNT WILL NOT BE REFUNDED BUT PLACED IN THE CUSTOMERS TRAVEL BANK ACCOUNT AS A CREDIT FOR USE ON FUTURE TRAVEL. TRAVEL BANK FUNDS/CREDITS ARE VALID FOR 1 YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ISSUANCE AND ARE ONLY VALID FOR DIRECT BOOKINGS WITH JETBLUE. FOR RESERVATIONS MADE BY AN AGENCY THRU THE GDS THAT ARE CHANGED PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE A 100.00 CHANGE FEE WILL BE APPLIED AT THE TIME THE TICKET IS EXCHANGED. THE VALUE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET CAN BE APPLIED TO THE NEW TICKET. IF THERE IS A RESIDUAL VALUE AFTER AN EXCHANGE ON A TICKET THE AGENCY CAN REFUND THE RESIDUAL VALUE TO AN MCO. THE MCO IS GOOD FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ISSUANCE. IF THE AGENCY DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO REFUND TO AN MCO ANY RESIDUAL VALUE AFTER THE TICKET IS EXCHANGED WOULD BE LOST. AFTER DEPARTURE CHANGES NOT PERMITTED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. RESERVATIONS NOT CHANGED PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE TIME WILL BE FORFEITED. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ALL NEW BOOKINGS ARE SUBJECT TO APPLICABLE FARE RULES. PASSENGER MUST BE PRESENT IN BOARDING AREA TEN-10-MINUTES PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEPARTURE TIME OR POSTED AIRCRAFT DEPARTURE TIME OR IT MAY RESULT IN THE CANCELLATION OF THE PASSENGERS RESERVATION AND FORFEITURE OF ANY PAYMENT.

truth is i think these rules are written for airline agents not pax. note the use of the term "charge" as if the airline is giving the agent instruction not warning a pax.

i'm always fairly confident when i go up against an airline for small matters involving fares, rules, penalties. they know they will most likely lose if the matter goes to a judge and absolutely if there is a jury involved.

3WE · 07-02-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeVee

I'm with the FA on this one, and so is, AA, or at least it appears to be.

Whoa!

There's two things on board.

1) The ears of innocent little children and grandma's.

2) (Perhaps, more importantly) Folks with video-recording smart phones.

The agent blew his professionalism with the reference to male anatomy. Sure it's a bad day and you were treated like crap, but you are a customer service professional.

Cops do fairly well, passing out speeding tickets, but they are generally very liberal with "yes sir", etc. when they are being treated like $hit. Can't be that hard.

You don't have to smile, maybe you don't even have to be polite, but you do have to be professional!

Sure, offer the opportunity to get off the plane.

Sure, be firm in your crowd control (I'm sure they were pushing things big time).

But have the balls to keep your use of that word in your head- especially when you are using the PA system...

TeeVee · 07-02-2012, 10:50 PM

so, wait, now the word "balls" is a bad word? hell, i've used the word in english and other languages in front of plenty of older people and have never been chastised.

it's easy to armchair this by saying, it's their job, they should be professional etc etc etc. but man, if you fly often enough and pay attention to the shitty way people act on planes and in the airport, ya gotta start to wonder why more fa's haven't gone ballistic and let some a-holes have it with both barrels. i would last about one day, maybe before hauling off and slapping the crap outta some smart-ass $150 r/t fare paying moron who wants to be treated like british royalty (sorry Brian!)

so what? the guy said get off the plane if you have the balls. oh well.

3WE · 07-02-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeVee

so, wait, now the word "balls" is a bad word?

When someone has a cameraphone and you are using the PA in public, and making a paycheck (from the passengers), and the context is very clearly male anatomy, yes.

The correct phrase is "If you want to get off the plane do it now, and then I don't want to hear any more complaints, it's been a bad day, and we are ready do leave if you want to go."

...and save the arm-chair comments for when the plane is doing 400 MPH and acting in a way you have never ever seen before.

The host-he works with ass holes and delays every day, and the article on the inside cover of the magazine has the obligatory picture of the dashing CEO and his comments about how much the airline loves serving it's passengers.

(Really, TV you are quite conflicted- on days when the airline is really busting ass to serve folks, but snow causes 2 hour "strandings" because the tug gets stuck, you are the one spouting profanities as though it's a crime against humanity)

TeeVee · 07-03-2012, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3WE

When someone has a cameraphone and you are using the PA in public, and making a paycheck (from the passengers), and the context is very clearly male anatomy, yes.

The correct phrase is "If you want to get off the plane do it now, and then I don't want to hear any more complaints, it's been a bad day, and we are ready do leave if you want to go."

...and save the arm-chair comments for when the plane is doing 400 MPH and acting in a way you have never ever seen before.

The host-he works with ass holes and delays every day, and the article on the inside cover of the magazine has the obligatory picture of the dashing CEO and his comments about how much the airline loves serving it's passengers.

(Really, TV you are quite conflicted- on days when the airline is really busting ass to serve folks, but snow causes 2 hour "strandings" because the tug gets stuck, you are the one spouting profanities as though it's a crime against humanity)

get a grip, you never heard me once say squat about a two hour delay. now bump it up to six, 8, 10 hours, then all bets are off.

there's also a HUGE difference between sympathizing with a FA who has been harangued by asinine pax for 4 hours when he had no fault in the delay and blaming corporate greed and laziness for a 10 hour imprisonment of 175 people in conditions that violate all semblance of humanity.

AA 1818 · 07-04-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeVee

As for reading the rules, sorry aa1818, those rules are not understandable. here is a sample of just aa's rules for a r/t domestic flight:

i sued aa for a pax several years ago based on aa's refusal to refund some money. their defense was that the rules said blah blah blah. i read the rules and sent an email to their attorney and asked him if he thought the judge would be able to understand all the shorthand, abbreviations, and techno-terms contained in the rules us dumb pax are supposed to read and agree to. they sent us a settlement check several days later.

while i agree that contracts need rules and they should apply whether you read them or not, at least make them understandable

Firstly, though badly formatted, nothing written was either illegible, or not stated. A preference to not read the fine print, is not the fault of the airline. By purchasing a ticket with the airline, a passenger is entering into a contract with said airline. The airline has the right to make stipulations regarding said services, and in our modern market place, the rights of the consumer have been simplified - theirs is the power to purchase the fare or not. No consumer is guaranteed the right to any specific fare. I have had to buy more expensive tickets on flight, simply because I read through the fare details of lower fares and realized that if x, y, or z happened that I would be ineligible for proper remedy, and/or compensation from the carrier. It's the truth of the world that we live in.

Rules and stipulations that are deemed 'unfair' or truly unpopular (thanks to a competitive market) will eventually be waned out the system as consumers choose not to patronize those fares/airlines that enforce said rules and stipulations.

AA did offer you a settlement check, but it was highly unlikely that it was based on any form of the merit of your case. It likely had to do with them understanding that costs of taking these cases to court. The man hours, preparation, and battles are often very expensive, and with a court system that is being constantly back-logged by the numerous (and, in some cases frivolous) lawsuits, the airline likely chose to refund the funds to your client, if only to save time, money and aggravation.

I understand that it is difficult to read, but it is not impossible. Buyer beware. The devil's in the details. Take you pick, but I am willing to state that if these cases did go to court, and were heard before Judges and jurys, and competent attorneys present, the current system would be upheld.

TeeVee · 07-04-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AA 1818

Firstly, though badly formatted, nothing written was either illegible, or not stated. A preference to not read the fine print, is not the fault of the airline. By purchasing a ticket with the airline, a passenger is entering into a contract with said airline. The airline has the right to make stipulations regarding said services, and in our modern market place, the rights of the consumer have been simplified - theirs is the power to purchase the fare or not. No consumer is guaranteed the right to any specific fare. I have had to buy more expensive tickets on flight, simply because I read through the fare details of lower fares and realized that if x, y, or z happened that I would be ineligible for proper remedy, and/or compensation from the carrier. It's the truth of the world that we live in.

Rules and stipulations that are deemed 'unfair' or truly unpopular (thanks to a competitive market) will eventually be waned out the system as consumers choose not to patronize those fares/airlines that enforce said rules and stipulations.

AA did offer you a settlement check, but it was highly unlikely that it was based on any form of the merit of your case. It likely had to do with them understanding that costs of taking these cases to court. The man hours, preparation, and battles are often very expensive, and with a court system that is being constantly back-logged by the numerous (and, in some cases frivolous) lawsuits, the airline likely chose to refund the funds to your client, if only to save time, money and aggravation.

I understand that it is difficult to read, but it is not impossible. Buyer beware. The devil's in the details. Take you pick, but I am willing to state that if these cases did go to court, and were heard before Judges and jurys, and competent attorneys present, the current system would be upheld.

i never said anything was illegible or unstated, although i have busted AA on an unwritten rule, which i'll get to in a moment. the formatting probably results from AA copying the text from an antiquated SABRE system or some crap like that. but aside from that, look at jetblue's penalties: what is "GDS"? What is "MCO"? what does "CXL" mean? now you and some other folks on this forum may understand it or be able to get a pretty good idea that CXL means cancel, but how about my mother? do you think a 70+ year old woman has a clue? should she be required to hire someone to interpret ticketing rules for her, or should she just be screwed because airlines felt the need to make up such f'd up rules? much as i don't like southwest for a whole bunch of reasons, i gotta say that their rules are the most straight forward and easy to understand. zero shorthand and written for the consumer not an airline agent.

as for the unwritten rules...i once bought a ticket to st. lucia for a friend who later said she could not go for work reasons. knowing aa's policies, or at least thinking i knew them, i called up to cancel her trip and have the ticket reissued for myself to a different destination. AA said that was not possible and that the value of the ticket less the insane $150 change fee had to be used for the friend's name only, even if i bought it with my credit card. i was further told that this was in the rules. i politely asked the agent to direct me to the section of the fare rules that mandated this, as i was looking at them online as we were speaking. she could not. neither could her supervisor. bottom line: bullshit. and they knew it. i eventually won the argument but i suspect that most consumers would have given up and many would have walked away from the $600.

lastly, since you were so sure about the rules being understandable, check out some of delta's rules and tell me if you feel the same way...

Fare Rules

For additional Fare Rule information click View Full Fare Rules below.
If the itinerary has more than one fare rule, the most restrictive rule applies to the
entire itinerary.
Rule 1 Rule 2

Rule 1


Fare Code - UA07A0NP
RESERVATIONS/TICKETING	RES REQ 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPART TKTG WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS OR AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPART WHICHEVER IS EARLIER WAITLISTING NOT PERMITTED ALL SEGMENTS FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
MINIMUM STAY	NO RESTRICTION
MAXIMUM STAY	NO RESTRICTION
SEASONS	NO RESTRICTION
BLACKOUT DATES	FROM NYC 21DEC12-25DEC12 TO NYC 24NOV12-26NOV12 28DEC12-02JAN13
ELIGIBILITY	NO RESTRICTION
TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS	NO RESTRICTION
DAY/TIME	NO RESTRICTION
STOPOVERS	NOT PERMITTED
SURCHARGES	INF-INFANT WITHOUT SEAT 0-1 YRS MISC/OTHER FARE COMPONENT 16 NOV 12 27.91 USD MISC/OTHER FARE COMPONENT 17 NOV 12 18.60 USD MISC/OTHER FARE COMPONENT 20 NOV 12 - 21 NOV 12 18.60 USD FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS	FOR TRAVEL ON/BEFORE 30JUN 12 DL FLT 1-1334 FLT 1400-5867 FLT 5970-6022 FLT 6026-9784 FLT 9791-9999DLFLT 1-1334 FLT 1400-5867FLT 5970-6022FLT 6026-9784 FLT 9791-9999 FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
TRANSFERS	NOT PERMITTED
TICKET ENDORSEMENT	ORIGINAL/REISSUED TKT - NONREF/PENALTY MUST APPEAR IN ENDORSEMENT BOX ORIGINAL/REISSUED TKT - APPLIES MUST APPEAR IN ENDORSEMENT BOX
ACCOMPANIED PASSENGERS	NO RESTRICTION
SALES RESTRICTIONS	EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY PERMITTED UNDER GUIDELINES SET FORTH BY CARRIER. CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
CHANGES/REFUNDS	CHANGE-150.00 USD CANCEL-NON REF

and now for the FULL version of the above...

Fare Rule Details

Rule 1 Rule 2

Rule 1


Definitions

FLLNYC-DL 4JUL12 RULE DISPLAY TARIFF 0011 RULE 9056 -FARE BASIS USD TAX TOTAL PTC FT UA07A0NP 133.95 10.05 144.00 ADT NL UA07A0NP 133.95 10.05 144.00 ADT NL UA07A0NP/IN00 0.00 0.00 0.00 INF NL UA07A0NP 133.95 10.05 144.00 INS NL BOOKING CODES U PFCS MAY VARY BY RTG INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - SIP - INSTANT PURCHASE FIRST TRAVEL - 3JUL12APPLICATION RULE EXCURSION FARES APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR COACH CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED ADVANCE RES/TKTG RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE. WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED. TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED BY MIDNIGHT 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER. NOTE - STANDBY IS NOT PERMITTED. SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC - PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS MAY CONFIRM EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/ STOPOVER POINTS FOR A NON-REFUNDABLE FEE OF USD 50.00 PLUS ANY DIFFERENCE IN GOVERNMENT IMPOSED ITINERARY BASED FEES. NEW ITINERARY MAY NOT BE CONFIRMED MORE THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO DEPARTURE TIME OF NEW OUTBOUND FLIGHT. THE NEW ITINERARY MUST BE VALID FOR THE ORIGINAL FARE PURCHASED. EXCEPTION- IF ORIGINAL FARE PURCHASED REQUIRES TRAVEL VIA A CONNECTING POINT - TRAVEL VIA NON STOP SERVICE IS PERMITTED FOR NO DIFFERENCE IN FARE. SEE PENALTIES/VOLUNTARY CHANGES FOR COMPLETE RULES AND RESTRICTIONS. BLACKOUTS FROM NYC - TRAVEL IS NOT PERMITTED 21DEC 12 THROUGH 25DEC 12. TO NYC - TRAVEL IS NOT PERMITTED 24NOV 12 THROUGH 26NOV 12 OR 28DEC 12 THROUGH 02JAN 13. CHILD DISCOUNT GENERAL RULES TEXT 1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - NO CHARGE TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN00. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT. SURCHARGES IF INFANT 0-1 WITHOUT A SEAT. THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL FARE COMPONENT. A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 16NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 17NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 20NOV 12 THROUGH 21NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 24NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 26NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 46.51 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 25NOV 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 19DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 20DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 21DEC 12 THROUGH 22DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 23DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 26DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 28DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 29DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 30DEC 12. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 02JAN 13. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 05JAN 13. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 06JAN 13. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 14FEB 13 A SURCHARGE OF 10 PERCENT OF THE FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL. NOTE - THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. FLIGHT APPLIC FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 01JUL 12 THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 5867 DL FLIGHTS 5970 THROUGH 6022 DL FLIGHTS 6026 THROUGH 9784 DL FLIGHTS 9791 THROUGH 9999 IN COMBINATION WITH ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 5867 DL FLIGHTS 5970 THROUGH 6022 DL FLIGHTS 6026 THROUGH 9784 DL FLIGHTS 9791 THROUGH 9999. FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 01JUL 12 THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 5867 DL FLIGHTS 5970 THROUGH 6022 DL FLIGHTS 6026 THROUGH 9784 DL FLIGHTS 9791 THROUGH 9999. NOTE - 1. NO DELTA SHUTTLE. TRANSFERS 2 TRANSFERS PERMITTED IN EACH DIRECTION ONLINE ON THE PRIMARY CARRIER FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT. ENDORSEMENTS THE ORIGINAL AND THE REISSUED TICKET MUST BE ANNOTATED - NONREF/PENALTY - AND - APPLIES - IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX. SALE RESTRICTION NOTE - EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY PERMITTED UNDER GUIDELINES SET FORTH BY CARRIER. CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS. PENALTIES CHANGES CHARGE USD 150.00 FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION/UNTICKETED PTA. NOTE - THE USD150.00 IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE CHARGE. -SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC- SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS MAY CONFIRM TRAVEL FOR LESS THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO THE NEW FLIGHT ON AN EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY DL NONSTOPAND/OR CONNECTING FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN AND DESTINATION AIRPORTS FOR A USD 50.00 FEE PLUS ANY DIFFERENCE IN GOVERNMENT IMPOSED ITINERARY BASED FEES. NOTE - A. SEAT INVENTORY MUST BE AVAILABLE IN THE CABIN APPLICABLE TO THE FARE CHARGED B. CHANGES PERMITTED TO OUTBOUND OR CONTINUING/ RETURN FLIGHTS C. FLIGHT/S AND ROUTING MUST BE APPLICABLE FOR THE FARE CHARGED. EXCEPTION-IF ORIGINAL FARE PURCHASED REQUIRES TRAVEL VIA A CONNECTING POINT TRAVEL IS PERMITTED VIA NON STOP SERVICE. D. IF THE REQUESTED CHANGE IS NOT APPLICABLE FOR THE FARE PURCHASED IE INVALID ROUTING/AIRPORT /ETC THE CUSTOMER MAY UPGRADE TO A FARE THAT DOES PERMIT THOSE CHANGES USING NORMAL REISSUE PROCEDURES OF PAYING ANY FARE DIFFERENCE PLUS ASC. E. IF THE CUSTOMER REQUESTS THE CHANGE MORE THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR TO NEW FLIGHT DEPARTURE TIME THE CUSTOMER CAN CONFIRM ON A DIFFERENT FLIGHT ON THE SAME DAY OF TICKETED TRAVEL BY PAYING THE ASC PLUS ANY APPLICABLE FARE DIFFERENCE. IF MULTIPLE CHANGES ARE MADE AT THE SAME TIME - SAME DAY CONFIRM DOES NOT APPLY. USE NORMAL REISSUE PROCEDURES OF PAYING ANY FARE DIFFERENCE PLUS ASC. TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY CHANGEIS MADE. -GDPR - GUARANTEED DAY OF PURCHASE RULE DOMESTIC PSGR TRANSPORTATION IS SUBJECT TO RULES/ FARE/ROUTINGS/CHARGES/ IN EFFECT ON THE DAY/TIME THE TICKET IS ISSUED/PTA PURCHASED UNLESS SPECIFIED IN THE FARE RULES. IF A DECREASE OCCURS AFTER A TICKET IS PURCHASED AND PRIOR TO ANY TRAVEL ON THE TICKET OR A NEW FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER QUALIFIES BECOMES EFFECTIVE THE DIFFERENCE MAY BE CREDITED PROVIDED 1. THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION STOPOVER POINTS/FLIGHTS/DATES. 2. ALL CONDITIONS OF THE NEW/REDUCED FARE MUST BE MET. THE ORIGINAL TICKET DATE OF ISSUE MAY NOT BE USED TO SATISFY ADVANCE/RES TICKETING REQUIREMENTS. THE BOOKING CODE OF THE NEW/REDUCED FARE MAY DIFFER FROM THE BOOKING CODE ON THE ORIGINAL TICKET. 3. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARE LESS THE APPLICABLE ASC MUST BE RETURNED IN A NONREFUNDABLE DTV/MCO GOOD FOR ONE YEAR TO THE PASSENGER NAMED ON THE TICKET. -TICKET REISSUE PROCEDURES- I. CHANGES TO OUTBOUND PORTION OF UNUSED TICKETS A. ISSUE A NEW TICKET - CANCEL AND START OVER B. MUST USE CURRENT FARES C. VERIFY ALL RULES INCLUDING ADVANCE PURCHASE II. CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN OF UNUSED TICKETS -MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE DETERMINE THE APPLICABLE ADVANCE PURCHASE BY CALCULATING THE NUMBER OF DAYS BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE DATE AND DATE OF DEPARTURE OF THE FIRST FLIGHT SEGMENT OF EACH PRICEABLE UNIT. THE ADVANCE PURCHASE OF ANY REPLACEMENT FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO OR LESS THAN THIS NUMBER. A. ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE FARES AS TICKETED -CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE COMPONENT -MUST BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARES AS TICKETED FOR ALL FARE COMPONENTS -USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE -USE MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE FOR EACH PRICEABLE UNIT -ALL OTHER RULE DATE MUST BE VERIFIED B. REPRICE KEEPING OUTBOUND FARES AND REPLACING CONTINUING/RETURN FARE COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL FARES -CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT -USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE -THE VALUE OF THE NEW TICKET MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN THE ORIGINAL TICKET -USE MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE OF EACH PRICEABLE UNIT. -ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY. C. ISSUE A NEW TICKET/CANCEL AND START OVER -MUST USE CURRENT FARES/VERIFY ALL RULES INCLUDING ADVANCE PURCHASE -VALUE OF ORIGINAL TICKET LESS ASC. WHEN APPLICABLE...MAY BE APPLIED TOWARD PURCHASE OF NEW TICKET -ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY III. CHANGES TO PARTIALLY USED TICKETS MUST COMPLETE TRAVEL BY 1 YEAR FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE DATE -MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE DETERMINE THE APPLICABLE ADVANCE PURCHASE BY CALCULATING THE NUMBER OF DAYS BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL TKT ISSUE DATE AND DATE OF DEPARTURE OF THE FIRST FLIGHT SEGMENT OF EACH PRICEABLE UNIT. THE ADVANCE PURCHASE OF ANY REPLACEMENT FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO OR LESS THAN THIS NUMBER. A. ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE FARES AS TICKETED -CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF ANY FARE COMPONENT -MUST BE ABLE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARES AS TICKETED FOR ALL FARE COMPONENTS -USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE -USE MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE FOR EACH PRICEABLE UNIT -ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY B. REPRICE KEEPING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS AND REPLACE UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL FARES -CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENT/S/ -USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE -THE VALUE OF THE NEW TICKET MUST BE EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN THE ORIGINAL TICKET -USE MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE FOR EACH PRICEABLE UNIT -ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY C. REPRICE REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS WITH HISTORICAL FARE/S/ IN AN EQUAL OR HIGHER BOOKING CLASS AND REPLACE UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL FARES. -REPLACEMENT FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS MUST BE OF EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE AND BOOKING CLASS THAN THE ORIGINAL TICKETED FARE -CANNOT CHANGE ORIGIN/DESTINATION OF THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENT/S/ -USE HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE -THE VALUE OF THE NEW TICKET MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN THE ORIGINAL TICKET -USE BOOKING CLASS HIERARCHY WHEN REPLACING FARES FOR FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS THE HIERARCHY IS ECONOMY CLASS - Y B M H Q K L U T BUSINESS CLASS - J C D I FIRST CLASS - F A -USE MODIFIED ADVANCE PURCHASE OF EACH PRICEABLE UNIT. -ALL OTHER RULE DATA MUST BE VERIFIED INCLUDING FARE COMBINABILITY. D. ISSUE A NEW TICKET -APPLY ANY RESIDUAL VALUE /IF ANY/ LESS THE ASC TOWARDS THE PURCHASE OF A NEW TICKET -CALCULATE NEW TICKET USING CURRENT FARES -VALIDATE ALL RULES CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW. NOTE - -THIS CANCELLATION FEE WILL ALSO BE ASSESSED TO REFUNDS OF COUPONS INVOLVING FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE. -LOST TICKET PAPER CHARGE USD100.00 -NO SERVICE CHARGE WILL BE IMPOSED FOR MILITARY PASSENGERS WHEN TRANSPORTATION IS PAID WITH A U.S. GOVERNMENT TRANSPORTATION REQUEST FORM NO. 1169. COMBINABILITY DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED. APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23. END-ON-END END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED. PROVIDED - COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ/VA END-ON-END FOR TRAVEL ON/BEFORE 22JUN 12 END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH US-CANADA TRANSBORDER/DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED. PROVIDED - COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/CO/UA/AA/AS/WS/AC/HA/ US/9K/WP/JV/ZK END-ON-END FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 04SEP 12 END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH US-CANADA TRANSBORDER/DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED. PROVIDED - COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/CO/UA/AA/AS/WS/AC/HA/ US/9K/WP/JV/ZK OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS/MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH DL FARES IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF. -TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS. A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED. MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT. -TO FORM 2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS -TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED. NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT- BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-BUR ROUTING 112 FROM-TO FLL-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/BOS/ORL/WAS/RDU- A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED. NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT- BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-BUR ROUTING 112 FROM-TO FLL-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/BOS/ORL/WAS/RDU- NYC*

tell me again how these are understandable???

TeeVee · 07-04-2012, 12:47 PM

p.s. this is for the purchase of a lousy $293.00 r/t ticket from FLL-LGA.

you can walk into a car dealership and spend 100 times that amount AND have a warranty which has its own set of problems and STILL not have so many confusing, twisted, f'd terms that practically no one understands.

3WE · 07-04-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeVee

p.s. this is for the purchase of a lousy $293.00 r/t ticket from FLL-LGA.

you can walk into a car dealership and spend 100 times that amount AND have a warranty which has its own set of problems and STILL not have so many confusing, twisted, f'd terms that practically no one understands.

Ha!- I'm with you.

But- I've got a devil's advocate question.

I bet that a lot (no, not all, but a lot) of these rules have a somewhat common sense intent. But, given that the legal system has so many confusing, twisted f'd aspects, that practically no one understands, that the airlines are forced to have all this crap to cover their ass.

We really do want to fly you where you want to go on this day at this time for this fare, but if the weather goes to shit, someones gonna threaten to sue and find a lawyer to take the case, unless we have really good disclaimers that cover every last confusing, twisted, f'd aspect that the lawyer's gonna try to win or get a settlement.

Gabriel · 07-04-2012, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3WE

We really do want to fly you where you want to go on this day at this time for this fare, but if the weather goes to shit, someones gonna threaten to sue and find a lawyer to take the case, unless we have really good disclaimers that cover every last confusing, twisted, f'd aspect that the lawyer's gonna try to win or get a settlement.

And then the lawyer is going to claim that your attempt to cover every last confusing, twisted, f'd aspect made the disclaimers confusing, twisted and f'd to the point that it is not reasonable to expect an average customer to understand them.

3WE · 07-04-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel

And then the lawyer is going to claim that your attempt to cover every last confusing, twisted, f'd aspect made the disclaimers confusing, twisted and f'd to the point that it is not reasonable to expect an average customer to understand them.

10 A$ = "Sounds like a circular argument. "
20 print A$;
30 goto 20

Gabriel · 07-04-2012, 06:54 PM

Me teaching Physics (after explaining the 3 Newotn's laws of motion):

Gabriel: But remember, Newotn's laws of motion are only valid in inertial frames of references.
Student: And what is an internal frame of reference?
Gabriel: That where the Newton's laws of motion are valid, of course.

(no joke)

TeeVee · 07-05-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3WE

Ha!- I'm with you.

But- I've got a devil's advocate question.

I bet that a lot (no, not all, but a lot) of these rules have a somewhat common sense intent. But, given that the legal system has so many confusing, twisted f'd aspects, that practically no one understands, that the airlines are forced to have all this crap to cover their ass.

We really do want to fly you where you want to go on this day at this time for this fare, but if the weather goes to shit, someones gonna threaten to sue and find a lawyer to take the case, unless we have really good disclaimers that cover every last confusing, twisted, f'd aspect that the lawyer's gonna try to win or get a settlement.

i don't think this had much to do with lawyering, well, not modern lawyering anyway. rather, bean counting. it's about making the "contract" as over-reaching and one sided as possible. there are several cases where the contract is one sided. delivery services for instance. historically, package delivery services were required to get your package somewhere but if they didn't there was nothing you could do. under no circumstances would they be liable for your package. how's that you say? well, take it or leave it. why do you think there is insurance offered? try suing the usps for losing your mail or package! shipping something by sea? better buy insurance! cuz even if the captain was the guy from the valdez or that costa cruise ship, if the shipment gets lost, you're shit outta luck. can't sue no matter what.

is this fair? hell no but it is the way it is.

air travel for some reason is only slightly different. the law has allowed airlines to limit their liability and do basically whatever they wish. pay them $500 to fly you from point a to point b and get you there according to their schedule. well, they fail to get you there according to their schedule and you still have to pay! fair? how about this? they have a rule that prohibits "X" behavior. you violate that rule. you don't fly and you don't get a refund. a very one sided contract. better yet, you buy your ticket today and they change the rules tomorrow. you accept it or take a hike!

imagine i said, pay me $2000 and i'll paint your house white. you pay me $2000 and i paint your house some weird ugly off-white. you sue me you win. nothing to talk about.

now imagine that painters were specially protected and you get screwed outta of your 2k and have a house that you now hate because it's a depressing funeral color. fair?

TeeVee · 07-05-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel

And then the lawyer is going to claim that your attempt to cover every last confusing, twisted, f'd aspect made the disclaimers confusing, twisted and f'd to the point that it is not reasonable to expect an average customer to understand them.

look, clearly these RULES that they publish were not written for the consumer. just read what they say: they tell someone, presumably an agent, what to do and what to charge.

wanna do the right thing? do what southwest does:

Fare Information

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Business Select

Purchasing this fare will enable you to board the plane in the first portion of the "A" boarding group.
You will earn extra Rapid Rewards points for your Business Select purchase (How points are earned)
You will receive one premium beverage of your choice*
These fares are refundable and changeable and may be applied toward future travel on Southwest Airlines for the originally ticketed passenger only.
Standby travel between the same city pairs and on the original date of travel is permitted with no change in fare; however, you may lose the privilege of boarding in the first portion of the "A" group.
Fares may vary based on flights and day of travel.
Seats are limited.
Guaranteed priority boarding may not be available during circumstances of irregular operations.
Fares are subject to change until tickets are purchased and may be available for a limited time only.
When combining fares, all rules and restrictions apply.
Lower fares may be available.

Anytime

These fares are refundable and changeable and may be applied toward future travel on Southwest Airlines for the originally ticketed passenger only.
Standby travel between the same city pairs and on the original date of travel is permitted with no change in fare.
Fares may vary based on flights and day of travel.
Fares are subject to change until tickets are purchased and may be available for a limited time only.
When combining fares, all rules and restrictions apply.
Lower fares may be available.

Wanna Get Away

Fares are nonrefundable but may be applied toward future travel on Southwest Airlines for the originally ticketed passenger only.
Should a passenger fail to apply the nonrefundable ticket toward the purchase of future travel within the eligibility period, the entire amount of the fare, which includes without limitation, all fees, taxes, and charges, will be forfeited.
Standby travel requires an upgrade to the Anytime fare.
Fares may vary as seats are limited and may not be available on all flights and dates.
Limited seating, advance purchase, and other conditions may apply.
Fares are subject to change until tickets are purchased and may be available for a limited time only.
When combining fares, all rules and restrictions apply.
Lower fares may be available.

Senior Fares

These fares are refundable and changeable and may be applied toward future travel on Southwest Airlines for the originally ticketed passenger only.
Standby travel requires an upgrade to the Anytime fare.
Passengers must be at least 65 years of age, with valid I.D.
Fare is not combinable with Web Only fares or DING! fares.
Fares may vary as seats are limited and may not be available on all flights and dates.
Limited seating, advance purchase, and other conditions may apply.
Fares are subject to change until tickets are purchased and may be available for a limited time only.
When combining fares, all rules and restrictions apply.
Lower fares may be available.

DING! Fares

Fares are available only through DING! on southwest.com.
Fares are nonrefundable but may be applied toward future travel on Southwest Airlines for the originally ticketed passenger only.
Standby travel is permitted but requires that the Customer pay the difference between the original fare and the "Anytime" fare.
Fares may vary as seats are limited and may not be available on all flights and dates.
Limited seating, advance purchase, and other conditions may apply.
Fares are subject to change until tickets are purchased and may be available for a limited time only.
When combining fares, all rules and restrictions apply.

Rapid Reward Freedom Awards

Fares do not include government-imposed September 11th Security Fee of up to $10 roundtrip.
Rapid Rewards Freedom Awards are available for one-way or roundtrip travel.
Reservations must be made at least one hour prior to departure.
Award Travel is changeable.
Each Freedom Award is valid through the expiration date indicated on the corresponding Award notification.
Travel on an Award is ineligible for Rapid Rewards points.
Rapid Rewards Freedom Awards are subject to limited blackout dates.
Award travel must take place on published service between origin and destination. If Southwest Airlines does not offer published service between origin and destination, you must contact a Customer Representative at (800) 248-4377 to make your reservation.
Arrival at destination must take place on the same day as departure from origin. An overnight stopover may not take place at midpoint between origin and destination. In the event an overnight stopover is scheduled, two Awards must be used.
All Rapid Rewards Rules and Regulations apply.

Rapid Reward Standard Awards

Fares do not include government-imposed September 11th Security Fee of up to $10 roundtrip.
Rapid Rewards Standard Awards are available for one-way or roundtrip travel.
Reservations must be made at least one hour prior to departure.
Award Travel is changeable.
Each Standard Award is valid through the expiration date indicated on the corresponding Award notification.
Travel on an Award is ineligible for Rapid Rewards Points.
Rapid Rewards Standard Awards are subject to seat availability.
Award travel must take place on published service between origin and destination. If Southwest Airlines does not offer published service between origin and destination, you must contact a Customer Representative at (800) 248-4377 to make your reservation.
Arrival at destination must take place on the same day as departure from origin. An overnight stopover may not take place at midpoint between origin and destination. In the event an overnight stopover is scheduled, two Awards must be used.
All Rapid Rewards Rules and Regulations apply.

Rapid Reward Companion Pass

Fares do not include government-imposed September 11th Security Fee of up to $10 roundtrip.
Rapid Rewards Companion Passes are available for one-way or roundtrip travel.
No advance purchase is required.
Companion Pass Travel is changeable.
Reservations must be made at least one hour prior to departure.
The Companion Pass is valid for free travel only when the Companion is accompanied on his/her flight(s) by the Rapid Rewards Member.
The Member and his/her Companion must check in together and present the Companion Pass in order to travel. Valid photo identification for both Member and Companion is also required.
All travel using a Companion Pass must be completed by the expiration date printed on the Companion Pass.
Travel on a Companion Pass is ineligible for Rapid Rewards points.

now, i am no fan of southwest by any stretch of the imagination. but i absolutely give them kudos for having sane, understandable rules.

TeeVee · 07-05-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AA 1818

AA did offer you a settlement check, but it was highly unlikely that it was based on any form of the merit of your case. It likely had to do with them understanding that costs of taking these cases to court. The man hours, preparation, and battles are often very expensive, and with a court system that is being constantly back-logged by the numerous (and, in some cases frivolous) lawsuits, the airline likely chose to refund the funds to your client, if only to save time, money and aggravation.

I understand that it is difficult to read, but it is not impossible. Buyer beware. The devil's in the details. Take you pick, but I am willing to state that if these cases did go to court, and were heard before Judges and jurys, and competent attorneys present, the current system would be upheld.

i'm gonna take special issue with this because you are only partly correct. very often litigants pay the money to avoid spending money going to court and losing more defending the case. in the case of the airlines however, their stonewall approach to denying pax claims is not always based on them being correct or within their contract rights. rather from their superior bargaining position, i.e, they already have your money. what i'm saying is, they straight up lie and cheat even under their own rules.

AA 1818 · 07-05-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeVee

i'm gonna take special issue with this because you are only partly correct. very often litigants pay the money to avoid spending money going to court and losing more defending the case. in the case of the airlines however, their stonewall approach to denying pax claims is not always based on them being correct or within their contract rights. rather from their superior bargaining position, i.e, they already have your money. what i'm saying is, they straight up lie and cheat even under their own rules.

Ok. I agree with you logic here. In you experience, has using a charge-back procedure (via a credit card company - even very good programs such as American Express) would at all, and if so, well? I mean, that's the only option to dis-empower their position?

Also, if this were taken to trial, could and/or would a judge order that the fare rules be more clearly written? I would love to see that happen, because though I can read them, I concede that it is not easy for all to read. That doesn't mean that it's illegible (sticking to my original point), but it could be much easier.