Sukhoi Superjet missing in Indonesia

[tsv]

Originally Posted by Evan

On demonstration/test flights?

Boeing:

None that I know of....

I'm no fan of Boeing but I have to congratulate them on that statistic.

[Highkeas]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Unless you consider MD in that section.
Then you have at least one MD-80 landing accident in a test flight. Pilot error.

Could you provide a reference?
Thanks

[Fear_of_Flying]

Originally Posted by tsv

FWIW I believe the FDR has now been found, http://www.euronews.com/2012/05/31/i...ed-russia-jet/

Yes, it was found by a Search and Rescue team, aka "local villagers" who were still looking for it.

In other news, the CVR has been transcribed, but the contents are not being released.

Also, an official source is claiming that the weather was just fine when the crash occurred, refuting a different earlier official source that the weather was miserable. From http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/...-flight/520585

Head of the Meteorology and Geophysics Agency (BMKG) Sri Woro Harijono on Monday denied all previous claims that the Sukhoi Superjet 100 crashed into Mount Salak because of bad weather...The BMKG report to the House differs from Indonesia’s Institute of Aeronautics and Space (Lapan) that said the Sukhoi Superjet encountered bad weather over Mount Salak before it collided with the mountain

The investigation has yet to inspire confidence, so hopefully the chain of events will speak for themselves once they are revealed.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Highkeas

Could you provide a reference?
Thanks

I was thinking of this one:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=19800502-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEiFZ...eature=related
Notably this plane was repaired.

But while looking for the links I came across yet another one
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=19800619-0
This one was not so lucky.

And still the MD-80 family was a commercial success.

No fatalities though.
In both events, pilot error and bad test-flight procedures and policies are mentioned as causes.

[Fear_of_Flying]

Reports concerning this accident continue to come out fast and furious, none of them very credible, yet combined start to give an impression as to what might have transpired.

From yesterday ("The Telegraph"):

Information leaked to a Russian newspaper claims that recordings from the jet's "black box" flight recorder shows that both the automatic avoidance system and another member of the crew tried to dissuade the pilot from a risky manoeuvre minutes before the jet collided with the side of a volcano in Indonesia, killing all 45 people on board.

The newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets said it had been led to understand that at some point in the recording a crew member is heard to shout something along the lines of "commander, we can't go there, there's a mountain," only to be ignored by pilot Alexander Yablontzev.

But the paper said that was not a direct quotation and said that the crew members exact words remain unknown.

The source who provided the information demanded anonymity because it is forbidden to leak details of ongoing air-crash investigations.

A verdict of pilot error would be the most convenient outcome for both makers Sukhoi and the Russian government because it would dispel concerns about the aircraft's safety.

From today's tabloid Pravda:

Russia's Sukhoi Superjet-100 crashed in Indonesia because of a whole complex of reasons, including the human factor, investigators said. The specialists studied the information that they could obtain from the flight recorders and came to conclusion that there was a potential customer staying in the cockpit shortly before the aircraft slammed into the mountain. However, the customer was not interfering into the actions of the crew. The person was only interested in the technical performance of the airplane.
A source close to investigation told RIA Novosti news agency on conditions of anonymity that the Terrain Awareness and Warning System was active during the demonstration flight. The pilots, investigators believe, received visual and audio signals warning of the mountain slope ahead. However, they ignored the signals because they were certain that they were flying above a valley, at a safe altitude. An Indonesian flight control officer approved a descent from 10 to 6 thousand feet. The pilots could not see the mountain on time because of thick clouds.
The crew supposedly received a signal from another onboard signal. The system said that the aircraft was flying low above the ground and prompted the extension of the landing gear. Being at a loss about the relief of the area, the commander decided to deactivate the automatic equipment to descend independently. "It could be possible that the crewmembers were certain until the very last moment that they were flying above a valley," the source said.
The pilots contacted the Indonesian flight control officer to find out whether it was possible to continue the flight as before. However, the officer did not respond. The Indonesian side had problems with either communication or location, which may often happen in mountainous areas.

[Gabriel]

Not a lot, but the latest official updates...

http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_home/ntsc.htm

[Evan]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Not a lot, but the latest official updates...

http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_home/ntsc.htm

Well, we now know there was an IFR flight plan.

[Highkeas]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Not a lot, but the latest official updates...

http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_home/ntsc.htm

They recovered a parachute. I wonder if it was a landing deceleration parachute.

[Fear_of_Flying]

Originally Posted by Highkeas

They recovered a parachute. I wonder if it was a landing deceleration parachute.

Doesn't sound like it from this earlier news release:

A

n army official who helped oversee the airlifting of bodies from the Sukhoi plane crash says the parachute found in the plane’s wreckage is still sealed in a bag and has not been used.
Bogor’s Surya Kencana Military Resort Commander, Col. (Inf.) A.M. Putranto, ended speculation that a parachute had been used by one of the victims.
“I am also a paratrooper and let me assure you that the parachute has not been used,” he said in a press conference in Bogor.

That report from late May went on to mention:

Since last week, rumors had circulated that the Sukhoi’s pilot, who was found dead, tried to leap from the aircraft with a parachute.
While admitting that a parachute was found in the wreckage of the Russian-made Sukhoi Superjet 100, Putranto stated that it was still sealed.

[TeeVee]

remember the line from Armageddon, "what are you doing with a gun in space?" why was there a parachute on what was supposed to be a commercial aircraft?

[Highkeas]

Originally Posted by TeeVee

remember the line from Armageddon, "what are you doing with a gun in space?" why was there a parachute on what was supposed to be a commercial aircraft?

I've worked on biz jets (and military jets) that had landing deceleration parachutes. A spare was carried sealed in a plastic bag to replace one used as a brake. Not too many aircraft have braking parachutes these days. I think I recall a DC-9 with such a parachute landing in Bolivia many years ago (I could be wrong on this). Some versions of the French Caravelle and the Russian TU-104 also use a brake parachute.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by TeeVee

remember the line from Armageddon, "what are you doing with a gun in space?" why was there a parachute on what was supposed to be a commercial aircraft?

I have no idea.

Other than that, it could have been an escape parachute for the test flight crew. This plane was not doing the demonstration flights. The one used for that purpose had a technical problem and this one, that was in the test flight program, was taken in a hurry to keep with the marketing agenda. Perhaps the parachute used in test flight was left there in some overhead bin or something.

[SYDCBRWOD]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

I have no idea.

Other than that, it could have been an escape parachute for the test flight crew. This plane was not doing the demonstration flights. The one used for that purpose had a technical problem and this one, that was in the test flight program, was taken in a hurry to keep with the marketing agenda. Perhaps the parachute used in test flight was left there in some overhead bin or something.

Most plausible answer - or there was a DB Cooper try hard on board...

[MCM]

This wasn't a commercial aeroplane.

It was an experimental pre-production model of what is going to become a commercial aeroplane.

These are still in the test pilots realm.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had left a parachute on there from the test flying stage - esp considering they may well have been still planning to do more test flying on the jet.

[UALdave]

Originally Posted by MCM

This wasn't a commercial aeroplane.

It was an experimental pre-production model of what is going to become a commercial aeroplane.

These are still in the test pilots realm.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had left a parachute on there from the test flying stage - esp considering they may well have been still planning to do more test flying on the jet.

Those are good points. Everyone on Youtube is bashing this plane for being Russian, but the IL-96 has been flying for about 20 years, and has had no fatalities. I seriously doubt, from the news and reports, that this accident has anything to do with the build quality, so to speak, of this plane. It's also worth noting that the mountain that this plane crashed into is referred to as an airplane graveyard. There have been a LOT of plane crashes there.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by UALdave

It's also worth noting that the mountain that this plane crashed into is referred to as an airplane graveyard. There have been a LOT of plane crashes there.

It would have been worth noting to the pilots before they took off.

[TheKiecker]

Evan,

Your take is as OBVIOUS as a Mountain. A mountain that got slammed at a ridiculous speed. I really dont get the mystery of this accident.

Mountain = Airplane eater

Pilot flies airplane into mountain.

Pilot = Cornhole

Rinse and repeat.

" What is THIS ?? "

[Fear_of_Flying]

here:

http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_av...4_Released.pdf

[TeeVee]

well now, crew requested to descend to 6000' and ATC cleared them. they then impacted a mountain at 6000'. sounds to me like some in ATC needs to find a new job...

[3WE]

Originally Posted by TeeVee

sounds to me like some in ATC needs to find a new job...

I dunno...it's not like they gave them vectors straight towards the mountian.

ATC can't fly the plane for them.