V Australia seeks 77Ls for ULH routes!

[akerosid]

According to an article in ATW News, V Australia is seeking six 777-200LRs (along with a batch of new 737s, including -900ERs) for ULH routes, including PER-LHR and SYD-JFK; the latter, at over 10,000mi would become the world's longest route.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=18418

PER-LHR, at just over 9,000mi, would take about 18h, but that's obviously shorter than going via SIN/KUL/DXB etc. No doubt DJ will seek to feed pax from ADL/MEL/BNE etc (although PER isn't that great for a connection viewpoint, pax having to be bussed around from the domestic side of the airport).

[badboys777]

Originally Posted by akerosid

SYD-JFK; the latter, at over 10,000mi would become the world's longest route.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[SYDCBRWOD]

The boeing website does not show sufficient range for the 777 200LR to do Syd - JFK

[saupatel]

Originally Posted by SYDCBRWOD

The boeing website does not show sufficient range for the 777 200LR to do Syd - JFK

... and that 10000 miles could be a lot more if you have heavy headwinds. Good thought but this seems highly unlikely.

[ced ampo]

Well, maybe their 77L will have additional fuel tanks installed

[rohank4284]

Originally Posted by SYDCBRWOD

The boeing website does not show sufficient range for the 777 200LR to do Syd - JFK

Yep, Boeing claims that the range of the Boeing 777-200LR is 9,380 miles, however, a range chart from New York I found on the Boeing website, shows that the Boeing 777-200LR has the range to fly from New York to Brisbane. So, a New York to Sydney flight may be possible, would I want to spend nearly 17-19 hours in plane? No!

Here is the range chart I found:http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777...7_range_ny.pdf

and http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777...c_newyork.html, http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777...lrproduct.html

Regards,

Rohan

[Eric Diffoot]

For V Australia to even try launching a 777LR from Sydney-New York would definitly be pushing the 777LR to the limit. With a tailwind, shouldn't be a problem but even a small-medium headwind, I don't think so. You don't see Delta flying their 777LRs from Atlanta-Sydney, their stoping in Los Angeles first. If they some how were able to do so would definitly give them an advantage as Qantas and no other airline isn't able to do so.

[rohank4284]

Originally Posted by Eric Diffoot

For V Australia to even try launching a 777LR from Sydney-New York would definitly be pushing the 777LR to the limit. With a tailwind, shouldn't be a problem but even a small-medium headwind, I don't think so. You don't see Delta flying their 777LRs from Atlanta-Sydney, their stoping in Los Angeles first. If they some how were able to do so would definitly give them an advantage as Qantas and no other airline isn't able to do so.

Yep, I agree starting a JFK-SYD flight would be pushing the limits of the Boeing 777-200LR. Boeing lists ORD-SYD as a typical city pair for the Boeing 777-200LR, but according to those maps from Boeing, a JFK-Brisbane flight can be done, SYD is about 300-400 miles South of Brisbane, though. Delta may have other reasons for flying their Boeing 777-200LRs through Los Angeles, instead, of from Atlanta, such as picking up extra passengers, etc. It will be interesting to see if V Australia can do JFK-SYD because they will jump even further ahead of United and will have a distinct advantage over Qantas.

Regards,

Rohan

[DAL767-400ER]

Originally Posted by rohank4284

Delta may have other reasons for flying their Boeing 777-200LRs through Los Angeles, instead, of from Atlanta, such as picking up extra passengers,

The reason for DL flying from LAX instead of SYD is not a lack of passengers, as DL would have more than enough feed from the entire East Coast to easily fill the flight, the problem is that at such a long range it is simply not possible to get the sufficient yields to actually operate the flight profitably.

Same would apply for a JFK-SYD flight. The loads would definitely be there, but the yields would simply not be. As for PER-LHR, that flight likely wouldn't work, period. Once again the yields aren't there for such a ULH, and the main travel demand on the Kangaroo Route is still to SYD and a lesser degree MEL, not PER. And if pax have the have choice between a routing via SIN with the longest segment being 6,700 miles or via PER with the longest segment almost 2,300 miles longer, guess which one they will take...

[HS-TGY]

Originally Posted by DAL767-400ER

As for PER-LHR, that flight likely wouldn't work, period. Once again the yields aren't there for such a ULH, and the main travel demand on the Kangaroo Route is still to SYD and a lesser degree MEL, not PER.

Are you suggesting that passengers wishing to travel from London to Australia want only to go to Sydney or Melbourne? I am sure that V Australia will have carried out a sufficient amount of research into this route - which currently nobody else operates - and are satisfied that it can work.

Without knowing how many flights a week the airline would plan to operate, I struggle to understand how you can write this route off long before it even starts.

[DAL767-400ER]

Originally Posted by HS-TGY

Are you suggesting that passengers wishing to travel from London to Australia want only to go to Sydney or Melbourne?

No, I am saying that the large majority is travelling to Sydney and Melbourne. Why else do you think there are so many flights, with the airlines usually using their largest planes, operating between LHR and SYD?

Originally Posted by HS-TGY

I am sure that V Australia will have carried out a sufficient amount of research into this route - which currently nobody else operates - and are satisfied that it can work.

All airlines carry out research before launching flight. Still doesn't mean that a flight will actually work.

Originally Posted by HS-TGY

Without knowing how many flights a week the airline would plan to operate, I struggle to understand how you can write this route off long before it even starts.

Simple, look at the price of fuel, look at the success, or rather lack thereof, of most ULH flights so far operated by SQ, TG, EK, AI or DL, look at the demand for travel between PER and LON, and you will figure it out.

[ptbodale]

YYZ-SYD is 9,663 miles. Air Canada was looking (for a really short time) at the possibility of a YYZ-SYD flight.

[akerosid]

I think Virgin Blue has scotched rumours of the upcoming order for 70 orders including a number of 777s for VA. The tone of their press release was quite dismissive, saying that
(a) there were no VA people among the DJ group going to SEA, and
(b) they were sending a team to Embraer in Brazil and were looking forward to reading speculation of what would emerge from that.

So, we may not hear much about this, or VA will just place the order on its own, without any (open) association with a DJ order.

On the plus side, the DJ order is expected to include 737-900ERs, so at least there'll be one new type!

[SYDCBRWOD]

Originally Posted by akerosid

On the plus side, the DJ order is expected to include 737-900ERs, so at least there'll be one new type!

Jetstar have recently bought online 4 A321's so both LCC's are looking to increase capacity.