Name that Airport

[HB-IHC]

Originally Posted by brianw999

Well...it's either the Albatross or the Goshawk.

So...Albatross ? Coastguard ?

Goshawk ? USN.

I'll look for a reply tomorrow. I'm off to bed for now.

TTFN.

Hope you slept well Brian!

This is a pretty unusual and a very interesting airport. Because of that I've done further research so that I can answer questions more accurately but I may have to do further research if we go too fast on this! (learn sooooo much!). You are close on a number of things but being close could also send you off on a wild goose chase - I don't want to do that to anyone! - so my suggestion for the poem was to merely "pick out the aviation", to list the aircraft in the poem.

I fully intend to guide you as to their context which is something far too complex, given the airport, for me to expect anyone to get at this stage, unless you already know the airport and, of course, I know of the airport but not enough about it to be able to give you really solid answers, at this stage.

Once all the aircraft are identified, then you will be able to fit the pieces of the puzzle together through further information and clues I will give you and I'll try to disambiguate the things that you've suggested that are close but, for now, let's disambiguate the information so far:

It will help if this is not read into in any way other than "There is something relevant about these aircraft at this airport"



1. In the first verse you suggested the poem identifies:

Albatross, Goshawk and my response was that you are "Bang On!" ... meaning, in the colloquial English more of our day, these are both absolutely correct.

Then you suggested a specific base. Incorrect.

Then you suggested Galaxy

My response was "Yes, well spotted".... it is correctly identified but I wanted to try and steer you away from making too many conclusions from this one as well.

2. In the second verse you suggested the poem identifies:

B767-200/300

My response was "too convoluted, the information here (in the second verse) is not twisted"... it's simpler than making 72 and 73 into 762 and 763 ... and I suggested going back to the stanza (four lines).

Then you suggested 3 possible US States but I tried to return you to the poem and identifying the aircraft. This is key to the airport whereas the 'State approach' will only have you doing a lot of boring Google Earth work which won't really help you - the aerial image doesn't give an awful lot away for the information you have.

Then you suggested another airfield. Incorrect.

3. you then restated GA and Biz and I gave you an unequivocal "yes"

So we have the following correctly identified:

General Aviation
Bizjets

And correctly identified in the poem:

Albatross
Goshawk
Galaxy

And two aircraft in the second verse incorrectly identified as B762 and B763.

What aircraft are in the second verse?

Once all aircraft are correctly identified, I will give you the next area to work on - context, some of which I will tell you straight out, and some which will have further clues to unravel, but all of which will start to narrow down the focus for you.


Naturally, if anyone else wants to identify the aircraft before Brian gets up in the morning, go for it ... there's plenty more work to do on this!

I'm off to bed myself now, catch you all l8r


Paul

[brianw999]

Off to work now but just a quicky for the second verse...

747-200 are there,
747-300 might be there ?


Back in 13 hours !

[HB-IHC]

Welcome back Brian and may I just say thanks to all you paramedics. One of your colleagues (maybe even from your patch you being not that far from East Grinny) came out for my Mother last week - she's absolutely fine but you guys were there when it mattered, as so often you are.

OK... back in puzzle mode, here's your reply:

Originally Posted by brianw999

Off to work now but just a quicky for the second verse...

747-200 are there,
747-300 might be there ?


Back in 13 hours !

... and here's the answer and the method for unlocking the secrets:

Doh!... too clever again Brian!

Here, are the Golden Rules for cracking all the secrets that the poem holds: Walk Don't Run!, Don't Read Ahead!, Don't Attempt To Answer Too Much At Once!... and, most importantly, Don't Do Anything Else Until You Have Methodically Read And Understood All The Text Below. Ignore this recommendation at your Peril!

Once more, Brian, you are very close to taking a path that could reap rewards but which will lead you on a Wild Goose Chase if you don't travel with all the correct equipment. You will not get into the House of Meaning (which holds the full meaning of the poem) without the correct equipment!

The correct equipment is: all the aircraft that appear in the poem. You still need to just, simply, correctly identify the two types of aircraft that appear in the second verse.

Once you have gathered all the equipment you will be rewarded with some information which is 100% reliable and which immediately half opens the door to the House of Meaning. However, you will not be able to enter the house until you have fully opened the door. You will be provided with clues on how to do that once you have arrived at the house with all the correct equipment and nothing but the correct equipment.

Once the door to the House of Meaning is fully open anyone reading this thread will be able to enter and you will all understand the exact context of why the aircraft appear in the poem. However, you will not necessarily understand the context of how these aircraft relate to the airport and this will form the basis of the next challenge.

I will not offer any help on what the aircraft mean to the airport until you have the vital understanding of why the aircraft appear in the poem, otherwise you are likely to end up on a Wild Goose Chase.

To recap, if you don't want a Wild Goose Chase the journey must happen like this:

1. Collect all the equipment. So far you have collected: GA and Biz and all the aircraft in the first verse.

If you have read everything above you will already know that there are only two aircraft in the second verse but they still haven't been correctly identified. To help you my response to "747-200" and "747-300" is exactly the same as my response to 767-200 and 767-300... too convoluted, the information here is not twisted... refer back to the stanza.

This means that the you have done something to the information in the verse which has twisted (convoluted) it into something it is not. The solution is far simpler than adding numbers and hyphens and then 'twisting' the characters around! (just add one digit to each)

2. To avoid a Wild Goose Chase, do not attempt this until step 1 is completed! Once you have completed step 1, the next step is to understand why the poet picked these aircraft to appear in the poem and what the poet is saying about them. You will receive help to uncover that information.

3. It is virtually impossible to interpret what the aircraft mean to the airport until step 2 is completed. Once step 2 is completed, this next step will provide challenges which will help you understand important relationships between the aircraft and the airport.

Completing all three steps, precisely and methodically, and only dealing with what I am asking you to deal with will lead to very powerful local knowledge which you will need to progress but don't forget, one step at a time or risk going off on a Wild Goose Chase or, even worse, cracking the Goose's Golden Egg...

... if that happens the contents will splatter all over the place and I think the Goose will be so upset that he might let you chase him or, even worse, he might even chase you! Oooooooooer!

You can complete Step 1 now!


The Goose Keeper


ps - no, the airport is not Gander

[z740]

To (possibly) help you in your search Brian, the trees in the picture are native to the deep southern US. Georga, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi are your best bets based upon the trees.

Hope this helps in some way.

-Chris

[Jet-fighters.Net]

Roswell Industrial Air Center??

[Moose135]

Originally Posted by HB-IHC

The correct equipment is: all the aircraft that appear in the poem. You still need to just, simply, correctly identify the two types of aircraft that appear in the second verse.

727 and 737?

[brianw999]

OK then, combining Moose's post with mine.

Definitely Albatross, Goshawk and Galaxy.
Definitely Bizjet and GA.
B727 for sure, and 4 of them, if this is the correct ID for seven two etc.
B737 maybe if that is the correct ID for seven three, but you're not sure yourself on that.

If all that is correct then I'm thinking a joint Naval base/civil airfield with hard runways and a seaplane base.

[HB-IHC]

The Poet says:

Pretty good Guess, Robin Guess, but unfortunately, it's Roswell Schnozzwell!


The Goose Keeper says:

Well done Moose, You caught my Goose!...

... I think you guys better make your way up to the House of Meaning and show the inventory to the Gate Keeper who will check it off for you"


You take it to the Gate Keeper and he says:

Ah, Brian, I see you are carrying the inventory. I can see that everything is now correct, in you come

You enter the gate, walk up the drive and come across a notebook. You can see a lot of Goose Chasing going on but you open the book and read:

The poet told me that the whole poem speaks only of his own experiences


You walk up to the door which is half open but not enough to get you in. There's an inscription that reads:

Welcome to the House of Meaning
The door's ajar but it's no good screaming
Don't interpret too much or move too fast
To open the door fully you must complete a task


From inside the house you hear a voice speak to you:

Welcome sleuths! I hope you're ready to discover something really important about this airport. It's hidden in the house. I'd really like to tell you but telling you straight out makes it far too easy and this is a golden piece of information so it won't be given up without you doing a little bit of work...

First you have to be able to read my poem correctly and this is the whole meaning of the first verse:

Fact: I have seen evidence that all the aircraft in the first verse have visited this airport

He then gives you a piece of paper on which is written:

You have all the information you need
To tell me exactly how verse 2 reads
Pray, tell me sirs, what exactly does it mean?
Tell me this simple thing and I'll let you in!


What does the second verse imply?


Paul

[Moose135]

Originally Posted by HB-IHC

What does the second verse imply?

There are four 727s visible at the field. There may be 737s as well, but they are not out in the open.

[HB-IHC]

Originally Posted by Moose135

There are four 727s visible at the field. There may be 737s as well, but they are not out in the open.

You're on the right track Moose, but you've gone a step too far in assuming something about the 737s...

... double check what you've written and make an amendment.

Keep tight to what the poem says and say no more than it does... otherwise you will go off on a Wild Gooose Chase!

Paul

[HB-IHC]

Originally Posted by brianw999

OK then, combining Moose's post with mine.

Definitely Albatross, Goshawk and Galaxy.
Definitely Bizjet and GA.
B727 for sure, and 4 of them, if this is the correct ID for seven two etc.
B737 maybe if that is the correct ID for seven three, but you're not sure yourself on that.

If all that is correct then I'm thinking a joint Naval base/civil airfield with hard runways and a seaplane base.

Brian... you interpreted the poem correctly ... well done!


I found out about 10 minutes ago that B737s have also visited for sure.

Originally Posted by z740

To (possibly) help you in your search Brian, the trees in the picture are native to the deep southern US. Georga, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi are your best bets based upon the trees.

Hope this helps in some way.

-Chris

Chris, this is an excellent piece of information! BIG respect!!


The Poet and the Goose Keeper say:

Congratulations! you are inside the House of Meaning, and you will be guided towards a key piece of information about this airport!



I will now clarify every piece of information that you can be 100% sure of so that you can check whether you have them exactly correct or not, and I'll suggest a focus for your thoughts...


OK Guys... here it is, as clear and unadulterated as possible...



Facts about this airport that you have uncovered:

Location

Western Hemisphere
American Continent... check Chris’ (z740’s) post and my reply to it

Traffic

I have seen evidence that the following aircraft types have visited this airport

General Aviation
Biz Jets
Albatross
Goshawk
Galaxy
B727s
B737s

Guidance notes and information:

Brian - on the Albatross and Goshawk, you have identified an important factor of the types which has some bearing on this airport but you may be taking a step too far with your thoughts on how they might be relevant. I suggest that it will help you refocus on to something that will yield better information if you put them in one category with the Galaxy.


Although that will help you, it’s nothing compared to this:


The key to finding an important piece of information about this airport is to focus more on the B727s at this stage. Once you have uncovered this information it will help you really enjoy your research instead of doing loads of boring looking at photos and Google Earth in the hope that you'll come across something that clicks.

To help you uncover this vital piece of information I’m going to tell you something really relevant about the evidence I have seen:

On B737s, I haven’t seen any photographs of them at the airport but I have read that they have visited.
On B727s, I have seen a photograph of 4 of them together on the ramp.

A key question to ask is: under what circumstances would we look at photographs of an airport and see 4 x B727s on the ramp but no B737s?


Note: you'll probably waste a lot of time if you try looking for the photograph.


EDIT IN POST: post up your thoughts / answers to the question so that I can confirm if you're on the right track or not.



Paul

[LH-B744]

Originally Posted by z740

To (possibly) help you in your search Brian, the trees in the picture are native to the deep southern US. Georga, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi are your best bets based upon the trees.

Hope this helps in some way.

-Chris

Well, who tells us that its not Louisiana? Water, trees, ... .. First opened Google Earth I thought of Lake Charles Regional, but they don't have water runways.. And the "7"-puzzle... no 744s I am sure, but whats about 772 and 773? Louis Armstrong Intl is capable of 772s... but no water runway either and KMSY is too big for what I would guess from the photo...
Gulfport Biloxi, MS is another guess of mine but... is that close enough to the Gulf for flyin boats?

[brianw999]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....

A key question to ask is: under what circumstances would we look at photographs of an airport and see 4 x B727s on the ramp but no B737s?

Because we are specifically looking for the 727's. Apart from the type could they be otherwise linked ? The USAF had 4x 727's ( properly named Boeing C-22B's ) operated by 201st Airlift, District of Columbia ANG. Trouble is, they were based at Andrews AFB, nowhere near the South.

Alternatively. We wouldn't see any 737's .... because they weren't around at the time ?

[Petertenthije]

The only reason why there would be (that many) 727s on a field are: 1) large maintenance base, 2) large cargo operation, 3) storage.

In the case of 2) and 3) there would likely also be 737s. So I am nudging towards an airport with a 727 maintenance base.

[HB-IHC]

Welcome back JP.Net Sleuth!


There's some great detective work going on here and the net is closing in on this airport. My replies below have been very carefully written.


Paul

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

The only reason why there would be (that many) 727s on a field are: 1) large maintenance base, 2) large cargo operation, 3) storage.

In the case of 2) and 3) there would likely also be 737s. So I am nudging towards an airport with a 727 maintenance base.

The Goose Keeper says:

Good detective work Peter but you are on a Wild Goose Chase. You have made one very large assumption about the information that has been uncovered.

The Poet Says:

Careful careful
Don't move too fast
You've been very dareful
But look to the past!


Fortunately another "Deep South Sleuth" has cottoned on to the false assumption that many detectives seem to have made and is dealing it a mortal blow.

Be sure to check everything from top to bottom on this post!


Paul

Originally Posted by LH-B744

Well, who tells us that its not Louisiana? Water, trees, ... .. First opened Google Earth I thought of Lake
Charles Regional, but they don't have water runways.. And the "7"-puzzle... no 744s I am sure, but whats about 772 and 773? Louis
Armstrong Intl is capable of 772s... but no water runway either and KMSY is too big for what I would guess from the photo...
Gulfport Biloxi, MS is another guess of mine but... is that close enough to the Gulf for flyin boats?

The Goose Keeper says:

Careful you don't chase my wild geese! ... you might be making too many assumptions about the relationship between the aircraft and the airport. Don't forget that Moose has already identified the 72 and 73 as B727 and B737.

The Poet says:

Nice Googling
but alas you could have been frugling
check how your colleague is moving
logic and deduction he is oozing!


Of course, you are right to add another State to the "deep South" list. I didn't notice it was missing from Chris' list.

Unfortunately, LH-B744, your suggested airports are incorrect


Paul

Originally Posted by brianw999

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....



Because we are specifically looking for the 727's. Apart from the type could they be otherwise linked ? The USAF had 4x 727's (
properly named Boeing C-22B's ) operated by 201st Airlift, District of Columbia ANG. Trouble is, they were based at Andrews AFB,
nowhere near the South.

Alternatively. We wouldn't see any 737's .... because they weren't around at the time ?

The Poet says:

Brian, Brian
what a brain, brain!
Your flyin', flyin'
To the answer you came!
'tis not absolute but so near exact
Below I will tell you how the pearl to extract!

Congratulations Brian

Your second suggestion is so near the truth that I will fill in details and direct the focus to the next step where you can deduce a very important piece of information about this airport!

1) B737s were "around at the time" but they were no where near as common as B727s.
2) The B727s were in airline service.
3) I can now tell you that B737s were also common visitors.
4) I have checked the two largest aviation image websites and still cannot find an image of a B737 at this airport!

The Poet says:

'tis true you have worked so hard all told
Your multiple reward is thus fourfold!

A) What does statement 1 say about the image?
B) What does statement 2 say about the airport?
C) What does statement 3 suggest about the aircraft type, given statement 2?
D) Key Question: given what you have deduced from statements 1, 2 and 3, what does statement 4 suggest about the airport?



Good luck sleuths and, for those that are still Google Earthing and Image Searching... there is a more economical way!


Check back with me if you need to on your deduction. If correct, you will receive a bonus which, with your deduction, will probably lead you to this airport's departure lounge and off into the blue yonder!



Paul

[Petertenthije]

B737s were "around at the time" but they were no where near as common as B727s.
A) What does statement 1 say about the image?

Not particularly much at this point. Except perhaps that this airport is definately not new, but the architecture and general worn look made that clear anyway.

2) The B727s were in airline service.
B) What does statement 2 say about the airport?

It confirms the airport is old.

3) I can now tell you that B737s were also common visitors.
C) What does statement 3 suggest about the aircraft type, given statement 2?

Since the 727 ruled the sky, the 737 type in question is definately not a NG ('600 to '900 series). A "classic" ('300 to '500 series) is possible, but a geriatric ('100 to '200 series) are most likely. The '100 never saw that much action, so probably a '200 but that might be an assumption too far.

D) Key Question: given what you have deduced from statements 1, 2 and 3, what does statement 4 suggest about the airport?

It's an old airport that has fallen in disuse. That is, disuse from a commercial flights point of view. Had it not fallen in (commercial) disuse, then this site would certainly have a 737 picture. After all, any airport with a long enough runway will have (had) a scheduled 737 service. The 737 is the Opel Astra of the sky.

That leaves one question, is the airport still in use? And if it is in use, what for? General aviation, biz-jets or military/coastguard.

[HB-IHC]

Peter, you have made some excellent observations! ...

... allow me to clarify:



The Poet Says:

Peter, Peter you have worked well
Before I conclude, to you I will tell
When each and every statement is clearly read
Each deduction can be so simply said



1) B737s were "around at the time" but they were no where near as common as B727s.
A) What does statement 1 say about the image?

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

Not particularly much at this point. Except perhaps that this airport is definately not new, but the architecture and general worn look made that clear anyway.

The Goose Keeper says:

You seem to be chasing a wild goose... the statement refers to the image, not the airport.


But, I think you probably identified, from what you say elsewhere, that the image is old, specifically of the time when B727s were far more common than B737s



2) The B727s were in airline service.
B) What does statement 2 say about the airport?

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

It confirms the airport is old.

And so it does, but more importantly it confirms, once and for all, something that has never yet been fully established.

Don't forget, that Military, GA and Biz have also visited this airport so this statement confirms that at the time when the photograph was taken, the airport was definitely a commercial airport.



3) I can now tell you that B737s were also common visitors.
C) What does statement 3 suggest about the aircraft type, given statement 2?

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

Since the 727 ruled the sky, the 737 type in question is definately not a NG ('600 to '900 series). A "classic" ('300 to '500 series) is possible, but a geriatric ('100 to '200 series) are most likely. The '100 never saw that much action, so probably a '200 but that might be an assumption too far.

Peter, I don't think your words show that you are assuming anything. You say "most likely" and "probably" and, indeed, you are probably correct.

The simplest point, which you obviously imply but don't make explicit, is that the (common) B737s were probably also in airline service, not Military / Government or Biz.


D) Key Question: given what you have deduced from statements 1, 2 and 3, what does statement 4 suggest about the airport?

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

It's an old airport that has fallen in disuse. That is, disuse from a commercial flights point of view. Had it not fallen in (commercial) disuse, then this site would certainly have a 737 picture. After all, any airport with a long enough runway will have (had) a scheduled 737 service. The 737 is the Opel Astra of the sky.

The Poet says:

Your reasoning is cool, you're thinking a lot
Your reading is smart, your deduction is hot!


Peter, you have nailed this important deduction. Congratulations!
... and I confirm that this airport is no longer a commercial airport

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

That leaves one question, is the airport still in use? And if it is in use, what for? General aviation, biz-jets or military/coastguard.

The Poet says:

Your question is smart but seems to make one small assumption
Discover the mistake, and I'll give you the function
With it as well, I'll give one more time
Some information to ponder, and the airport to find!


Fantastic work Peter... the shadow of the net can be seen over the ramp!


Firstly, I can tell you for sure that the airport is still in use.

Secondly, I hope I don't misunderstand your meaning, but it is written as if you are making a slight assumption. To help you, here's the problemmatic line...

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

General aviation, biz-jets or military/coastguard.

... and to answer your question, all you need to do is change one word in that sentence.

When someone posts up what they believe to be the correct sentence I will confirm what this airport is used for now and then give you, free of any work whatsoever, another very interesting and important piece of information that ought to nail it for you.


I'm off to sleep so I bid you all, good night, good morning, good afternoon and good evening... wherever you are, and whenever you are.


Paul

[Petertenthije]

... and to answer your question, all you need to do is change one word in that sentence.

or = and, General aviation, biz-jets and military/coastguard

[HB-IHC]

Originally Posted by Petertenthije

or = and, General aviation, biz-jets and military/coastguard

The Goose Keeper says:

You have done well Peter and you will be richly rewarded for staying away from the wild geese!


Here is some information for you to feast upon:


On-line data about this airport tends to be a little patchy since verifiable up to date information is a little suspect.

However, whilst there is a suggestion that the airport still has some scheduled commercial traffic, apparently ninety-nine percent or more is not commercial, of which eighty to ninety percent is General Aviation (assumed to include Biz also) after which Military and Air Taxi movements split the difference.

The Airport was constructed in the 1930s and was considered to be at the leading edge of airport design, particularly with respect to contemporary architectural excellence of the time. Personally, I don’t think the image on this thread makes this well known styling too obvious.

The airport retains its original ICAO code which alludes to the area it serves, the consequences of which ensure that the ICAO code of the current major commercial airport in this area doesn’t make an immediately obvious link to the area.

Although the current major airport does allude to its former name, when I travelled through it in 1988, on two Continental DC9-30s, it had already changed its name to the one it was subsequently given and which it retains to this day.

I can confirm that you should be looking near water, even though the image of the Albatross I have seen at this airport stands on the ramp. Part of that image is shown below.






The Poet says:

By all means sleuths, ahead you must go
But this I will tell you, although I don’t fully know
You have an image now, and your logic thinks “short cut”
But searching for the image could take a lot longer than the thought cut!

Nonetheless detectives, you now have a feast
Of information to sort and methods, at least
Google Earth and images, snippets and truths
The Goose Keeper says: no more chasing goose!



Enjoy your research!



Paul

[brianw999]

I can confirm that you should be looking near water, even though the image of the Albatross I have seen at this airport stands on the ramp. Part of that image is shown below.

Aaaaah....but salt .....or fresh water ?