Bigma or 150-500mm

[NF Spotter]

Folks,

I had been looking for an air show lens for a while and I thought the Sigma 100-300mm +1.4x TC was the answer. Alas that combination (used) I had picked up is now returned for refund, due to defects. So I am back at square one.

The Canon 100-400mm is currently beyond my budget so I am considering either the Sigma 50-500mm or the Sigma 150-500mm.

Anyone here shoot with either of those last two lenses and how do you find them in the 300-500mm ranges

cheers

Mark

[Diezel]

Mark, This is just my personal opinion but looking at your pictures in the DB, which are all of excellent quality, I think you will be dissapointed with the results from both of these lenses. They are just not in the same league as the 70-200 you are currently using. Specially not in the 300-500mm range.

Have you considered looking for a second hand lens? For example a 300mm prime, possibly with the 1.4 TC? I know it is harder to use a prime but the results will be so much more rewarding.

Roel.

[NF Spotter]

Roel,

Thanks for the comments, and the compliment, I do love the 70-200mm.

I have read what I can on the 50/150-500 and I did fear I would be disappointed over 300mm. So few of the comments are from spotters however, so I thought I would inquire here.

I see Digitalrev sells the 100-300mm F4 for a reasonable price (I love its reach combined with F4, I just suspect that my used copy had seen some hard use before I got it). I am tempted to pick up a new copy and use that with a TC. I really like how the 70-200 does with a 1.4x TC, I suspect a new 100-300mm will do just as well.

cheers

Mark

[NickN]

Add a 2x TC to the 70-200mm and you have a constant f5.6 140-400mm.

[NF Spotter]

Nick, I have the 70-200mm F4, which would work out to be a constant F8 lens with a 2x TC. So on my 40D that would lead to unreliable if any autofocus.

cheers

Mark

[Tanner_J]

Save your money until next year. Air show season is almost over!

[NF Spotter]

Tanner,

We have a small airshow here (CYYT) next week, with the Snowbirds and CF-18 demo team, then in November I am off to Vegas for Aviation Nation, 2009. So as much as I would like to wait and save I want the extra reach for these upcoming oppurtunities.

cheers

Mark

[Spotter]

Originally Posted by Diezel

Mark, This is just my personal opinion but looking at your pictures in the DB, which are all of excellent quality, I think you will be dissapointed with the results from both of these lenses. They are just not in the same league as the 70-200 you are currently using. Specially not in the 300-500mm range.

Have you considered looking for a second hand lens? For example a 300mm prime, possibly with the 1.4 TC? I know it is harder to use a prime but the results will be so much more rewarding.

Roel.

I have to agree with Roel here. I used to shoot with the 50-500 (Canon mount) and I always thought it was pretty ok, until I bought a 70-200&300mm. There is no way of comparing them, the 50-500 doesn't even come close!

[cja]

Originally Posted by Spotter

I have to agree with Roel here. I used to shoot with the 50-500 (Canon mount) and I always thought it was pretty ok, until I bought a 70-200&300mm. There is no way of comparing them, the 50-500 doesn't even come close!

I would also have suggested that you Consider a Canon Prime lens particularly the 400mm for air shows but the price of this lens seemes to have had a huge price hike here in the UK. I am sure that a year ago it was around £800 but now we are at £1150. Even worse my own lens has seen a £600 price hike in the last six months- Whats going on at Canon?

[Vishal Jolapara]

Mark, i personally was looking at the Sigma 100-300 f4 EX + a TC preferably a 2X one as those work on any dSLR unlike Canon's 2X which would only mate with an xD series body.

Just that i'd prefer sharp-outta-the-camera shots rather than moderately sharp photos on which u have to spend considerable time in post-processing & thats where the Primes come in.
Your trade-off for the flexibility of zoom is Sharpness.

Have you considered the EF 300 f4 L IS & EF 400 f5.6 L ?
Both cost almost the same - $1200/- http://www.canonrumors.com/prime-lenses-price-watch/

[NF Spotter]

Folks,

So I decided to go with the Sigma 100-300mm F4 plus 1.4x TC. This was on the basis of the overall IQ, the reach I could get with a TC, and the ability to reach a little farther for dawn/dusk shots at ~F4. Thanks for all your input.

I ordered from 47st. Photo's ebay site. That was the best deal I could find (in the short amount of time that I looked.). Lens plus TC was delivered to CYYT in 3 business days for just over $1400 CDN (plus HST...). I was very pleased with the price and quick turn around.

The CYYT airshow was this past weekend. Thanks to an invite to the practice day I had three oppurtunities to shoot the CF-188 demo and the Snowbirds demo. Weather was overcast for the most part so it was not really a fair test of the new lens combo.

I used the 100-300mm on its own for the snowbirds demo (and evening arrivals) and the 100-300mm + 1.4x TC combo for the CF-188 demo. The lens worked quite well on its own. IQ was good, especially considering the lousy conditions and it focussed quickly and mostly reliably. There may be a misfocus issue with nearer subjects but it is fine for the distances we shoot. Biggest disappointment was that the lens/camera lost focus just as the snowbirds did their only 4 way cross over of the weekend. I can't necessairly blame the lens for this.






The 100-300mm plus 1.4x TC combo (either sigma or tamron 1.4x) did not fare so well, bearing the weather in mind of course. The IQ of those shots was very dispapointing.

On Friday much of the Cf-188 demo was done in sunshine. However, the best quality shots were only presentable once downsized and edited but none of my shots impressed me when viewed at 100%. Here is a full resolution crop of a typical shot



I am curious what went wrong. Could it be:

1. It was very humid on all days. Given the distance the jet maintains from the Crowd I can see atmospheric issues really degrading IQ. I am hoping this is the true culprit.
2. User error is always possible. That being said I shot at f8, at least 1/1000 and at Iso 400 (which is fine on a 40D)
3. misfocus
4. TC related. TC do degrade image quality but I have trouble with this one as the combination produced good images of static subject at a distance and my tamron 1.4x tc works beautifully witht my 70-200 F4 (non-IS).
5. Other factors or some combination lof those listed above.

Comments are welcome as are 100% crops taken at ~400mm at aerial demos for comparision purposes.

cheers

Mark

[kukkudrill]

The Hornet shot looks to me like it's suffering from a combination of blur and softness. I would exclude atmospheric issues as a problem. That's not what heat distortion looks like to me, and haze on its own should lead to loss of contrast not sharpness.

Have you tried taking close-ups of static subjects to see if you still get soft results with the 300/TC combo? (Edit: sorry, you answered this already.)

Mating lenses with bodies can be unpredictable in my experience. I have a 100-400 lens which I've used with a 350D and a 450D. It works perfectly on the 350D but when mounted on the 450D it gets very soft, almost like it's not focussing accurately, when zoomed out. I have no clue why.

[kukkudrill]

For what it's worth, here's a 100% crop from an image shot at 370mm using my 350D and 100-400. It's been sharpened a bit however.

[sluger020889]

I fear that you have over looked the better option if you were looking for an airshow lens. The Canon 400 5.6 is one amazing piece of glass that is very reasonably priced at 1200 USD. I've used it a couple of times and it does not disappoint.

Your hornet shot seems to suffer from softness and blur, as previously mentioned. Both of those were probably magnified by the TC, I sometimes encounter the same thing with my 300 F4 and 1.4x when its rather hot and humid out. I now try not to use the TC in such conditions.

Joey

[NF Spotter]

Gents,

Thanks for the all the replies so far. I appreciate the advice recommending a long prime, the 400mm 5.6 L was indeed very tempting and if I was looking for something to exclusively shoot fighter solos with, I think that would have been the ideal solution for my budget.

Alas, given that I am lucky to make it to 1-2 airshows a year I could not justify the 400mm prime. It would have been of very limited utility for the rest of the year (and limited when dealing with larger airshow subjects / formations). The 100-300mm + TC combo promised flexibility, reach, decent IQ (in theory) and when used w/o the TC, low light reach for sunrise/sunset shots.

Since the CYYT airshow I played with the lens / TC combo a little more and had convinced myself the lens alone was not delivering the IQ that it should. While I was not expecting it to parallel my 70-200mm F4, my new 100-300mm F4 was not producing the IQ expected (in terms of 'critical sharpness' my former used 100-300mm did better in that regard).

On Friday I decided to send the lens for calibration. Since I bought the lens from a US dealer I had contacted Sigma America. Their initial response was for me to send the lens to Gentec , Sigma's Canadian distributor. I contacted Gentec who informed me of a $50 per lens surcharge (Lens plus TC) for Sigma International warranty work. I can see why Gentec is not happy servicing American distributed product but I can't see Sigma Japan being happy that their warranty work is being made subject to a private tariff.

So I contacted Sigma America again, explained Gentec's position and to their credit they said to send the lens on in to them for calibration. I used the bare 100-300mm again briefly yesterday before packing and shipping it off. I was shooting some departure shots at CYYT and the 100-300mm's AF mechanism simply stopped working. I switched the camera off and on again but no difference. I took the lens off then replaced it, still no focus. I cycled through and tried the different camera AF modes, no difference. I flicked the lens' af/mf switch back and forth and no difference. I swapped the 100-300 for my 70-200 and the Canon focused fine. I then put the 100-300mm lens back on but still no focus. I then fired off some manually focused shots and a short while later the AF mechanism started working again just as mysteriously as it stopped. So I now had a new request to make of Sigma service: diagnose and fix the new (or always underlying...) AF problem then calibrate. Package was shipped out yesterday.

I am withholding judgment on the 100-300mm + TC combo until I get the items back from Sigma. I have heard good things about their service and I went in to the purchase knowing that a Sigma lens would likely have to be calibrated. I hold out hope that when the lens comes back it will perform as I first hoped it would. If not I will have to kick myself for not breaking the bank and getting the Canon 100-400mm in the first place.

Stay tuned.

Mark

[seahawk]

I own a Sigma 400 APO 5.6 from the film days. I put it in the closet when I got my D100 as the AF was too weak to use it for airshows. Now with the D300 I have rediscovered the lens. Very good at 8.0 better then any zoom in the "affordable" price range at 5.6. I am hoping for good weather in 2 weeks, for the Tiger Meet so I can try it for airshow use.

(and I won´t have to carry the evil Nikon 300 2.8 all day)

[NF Spotter]

Folks,

A brief update

I received my 100-300mm +1.4x combo back from Sigma America on Saturday. Even though I am in Canada they did not charge me for return shipping. That was appreciated.

Their notes indicate the following:

Adjust AF FATA
Repaired Pin
Checked all in Good working Order

What do the first two lines mean? I have no idea (a call on my part would not hurt). Maybe they calibrated them, but they did at least fix something as te focus does seem to work fine when using the lens alone.

CYYT saw some sun over the weekend so I got to try out the lens/ tc combo. Using the lens on its own I saw the IQ I was hoping for with static and moving subjects. Using the lens with the Sigma 1.4EX converter, however, lead to static images with poor IQ and even worse IQ with moving subjects.

I also tried the lens with the Tamron SP 1.4x converter. It produced excellent IQ with static subjects but mostly poor image quality with moving subjects.

So, here are my off the cuff conclusions (comments are invited):

1. Based on what I have read my lens is not performing as well with TCs as it should. With the 40D and 3rd party TCs either the focus can not keep up with moving subjects or there is a communication problem.

2. My copy of the Sigma EX 1.4x TC is either not a good copy or has calibration issues. This is based on its poor results with even static subjects.

3. I know (from using it with my 70-200 F4L) that my Tamron 1.4x works properly but with moving subjects it does not work well between my 40D and the 100-300mm. Given that it works well with static subjects something gets lost when using AF and moving subjects.

I am going to try to get my hands on a Canon brand 1.4x TC and see how the helps/hurts the AF with moving subjects.

cheers

Mark

... less than two weeks to Nellis....