American B772 near Buenos Aires on Dec 25, ran out of air sick bags, lightning strike

[Gabriel]

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a2a1f52&opt=0

I was there. I was among the 50% that didn't vomit (barely). I don't believe that the situation was dangerous for the integrity of the plane, but sure it was horrible. Especially because the turbulence, quite strong to begin with, lasted more than 1 hour!!! (from half of the descent to half of the diversion to Montevideo). The go-around in the middle of all that was a quite intense experience too, and being struck by a lightning didn't help people calm down either.

Very good job by the crew (both flight and cabin). In a context where mother nature seemed to be in charge, they were very professional and reassuring. And empathetic too, in a situation where a lot of persons expected (but now were not going to be able) to spend Christmas with their loved ones.

And the landing in Ezeiza, the following day, one of the smoothest ever!!!

https://es.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL997/history/20161225/0130Z/KDFW/SAEZ/tracklog
https://es.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL997/history/20161225/0130Z/KDFW/SAEZ

In the first link you can see quite well where the turbulence started (in the middle of the descent) and ended (in the middle of the diversion to Montevideo) and how much it lasted.

[Evan]

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a2a1f52&opt=0

I was there. I was among the 50% that didn't vomit (barely). I don't believe that the situation was dangerous for the integrity of the plane, but sure it was horrible. Especially because the turbulence, quite strong to begin with, lasted more than 1 hour!!! (from half of the descent to half of the diversion to Montevideo). The go-around in the middle of all that was a quite intense experience too, and being struck by a lightning didn't help people calm down either.

Very good job by the crew (both flight and cabin). In a context where mother nature seemed to be in charge, they were very professional and reassuring. And empathetic too, in a situation where a lot of persons expected (but now were not going to be able) to spend Christmas with their loved ones.

And the landing in Ezeiza, the following day, one of the smoothest ever!!!

https://es.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL997/history/20161225/0130Z/KDFW/SAEZ/tracklog
https://es.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL997/history/20161225/0130Z/KDFW/SAEZ

In the first link you can see quite well where the turbulence started (in the middle of the descent) and ended (in the middle of the diversion to Montevideo) and how much it lasted.

So many questions...

What replaced the airsickness bags?

Can you describe the experience of the lightning strike?

Was the turbulence greater than simply being on the ground on Christmas Eve in BaAs?

Happy Holidaze Gabe...

[3WE]

Did you died?

[3WE]

Ok, more serious questions:

Any weightlessness or true negative G's?
2+ positive G's?
Big sustained climbs and drops, or more chop?
Your vantage point: Window- center, and Front, Center or Back of the AC?

Go Around- When exactly did you go around....short final near a typical DH, or maybe more in the middle or beginning of the final approach? If they went all the way to minimums, why not try again?

[3WE]

Do not take off land in thunderstorms
By Carlo Smeraldi on Tuesday, Dec 27th 2016 15:10Z

FAA AIRMANS INFORMATION MANUAL in black and white that is what it says this flight crew should have diverted initially period instead of risking passengers lives once again signed B747/777/757/L1011 pilot worldwide 25 years

Many things to say.

1. Boeing Bobby is lying about his experience...and his first name. Boeing Carlo only has 25 years experience.

2. Gabe's experience does hit close to that 'Boeing Bobby' classic argument that one should 'absolutely totally black and white avoid thunderstorms' versus 'we try our best, but sometimes gotta punch through them or the aerospace system and it's schedule will melt down'...

2a. Please relax Bobby, Carlo or whomever you are- no significant personal jabs here, the topic is OFTEN debated, you just exemplify the 'avoid storms at (almost) all cost' argument...it's just that the counter argument is that storm penetration happens a bit more than you seem to profess that it should.

3. What do YOU think Passenger Gabe- did they push it too far here?

[Gabriel]

What replaced the airsickness bags?
We didn't run out of bags. We did run out of SPARE bags. The flight attendant that I could see best from my seat took bags several times, first from the toilet and then from a compartment, and handed them to the PAX in need, until he run out of them. However, while a lot of people did vomit (some more than once, so they used more than one bag), others didn't, so the bags started to be passed first within the rows and then between rows. I was one who handed my bag to another pax, and then I regretted it because later I felt I was about to vomit too, something that I could narrowly avoid.

Can you describe the experience of the lightning strike?
A white generalized flash (like all the sky became white, probably because we were in the clouds) + a more punctual orange flash (that came from the left of the plane, maybe the left wing but I was not in a window seat so I didn't have a clear view) + a strong but short bang (like a gun shot or firecracker). All three simultaneously. Nothing changed in the plane itself as far as I could notice. There was no jolt or vibration, no flicker of the cabin lights, no change in the engine sound...

Was the turbulence greater than simply being on the ground on Christmas Eve in BaAs?
Yes. As long as you don't listen to the news...

Did you died?
Just a little bit.

Any weightlessness or true negative G's?
I don't think so. If there was any negative Gs it was small and very brief. I never felt hanging from the seatbelt and nothing in the floor floated up.

2+ positive G's?
I forgot my accelerometer at home... I don't know what was the peek G. In general I would say that it remained mostly between a little above zero and a little below 2. But one thing is a sustained 2 G (like in a 60deg bank turn) and another thing is to go from 0.5 to 1.5 repeated times, in an arrhythmic an unforeseeable way (you could not know when the next jolt would hit, nor if it was going to be up or down, so it took you by surprise every time).

Big sustained climbs and drops, or more chop?
Yes, yes and yes... and more. "Interesting" lateral accelerations, changes in airspeed, and pitching and rolling.

Your vantage point: Window- center, and Front, Center or Back of the AC?
I was in row 41 (near the back end of the plane) in the center block. I always try to pick these seats because, at least in AA, there the center block changes from 5 abreast to 4 abreast, so they have a little more of legroom because the supports of the seats in front of you are in the middle of your seat. Since I am tall, I could see most of the back section (between R3/L3 and R4/L4), and I could see quite well the flight attendant in L3.

Go Around- When exactly did you go around....short final near a typical DH, or maybe more in the middle or beginning of the final approach? If they went all the way to minimums, why not try again?
The plane was already fully configured for landing (full flaps and gear down). During the latest stages of the final approach the turbulence had become much more mundane, and it felt as if the plane was in a solid glide path with small variations in engine thrust, so I guess that the approach was stabilized. We started to see patches of ground passing by, mixed with patches of clouds. The flightaware link I posted reports a minimum altitude of 305m, which is about 1000ft (AGL or MSL, since the airport has an elevation of merely 70ft). But from the time it has passed since the plane was fully configured for landing and from what I could see through the windows (not much) it looked like the plane was much lower than that. Also, the go-around was very brisk. It didn't seem that they bother to set an intermediate thrust setting but rather that they went for full TOGA. Flightaware records a peak climb rate of 4400 fpm. So, I don't know what happened. Maybe the approach was unstabilized even if I didn't notice it. Maybe we were much lower that reported by flightaware and it was a go-around at minimums when the crew did not have the RWY in sight. Maybe they got a windshear alert...

What do YOU think Passenger Gabe- did they push it too far here?
I don't know what information they had. I tend to believe that they didn't expect it to be so bad. I cannot believe that they intentionally put the PAX under a situation where we run out of spare sickbags. These summer storms tend to have the worse part very concentrated and you typically can dodge the worse parts. In fact, while several planes diverted (there were at least 3 planes in Montevideo, but only ours was disabled and could not return to BA after a couple of hours, and probably more planes diverted to other airports), other planes did land within the same period of time. In fact, we were so close... and even after diverting, we could have been back in BA after just 2 or 3 hours, had our plane not been grounded (apparently by the lighting strike).

While we were in the plane in Montevideo (for several hours) I talked with the flight attendant that had been in L3 (the one that I could see best). He told me that it's better that we went to the hotels until tomorrow because he didn't want to go into that again. I told him "don't tell me that this was your worst situation in an airplane", and he told me "I swear it was". For me it was strange. I don't fly a lot, but I had been in diversions a few times before, had gone around once (because the preceding plane had not cleared the runway), and had been in more intense turbulence twice: Once in an ElAl 747 landing at Ben Gurion and another one in a LADE Fokker F-27 in a short flight in the Argentinian Patagonia. The lightning strike was a first. The big difference is that, while stronger, the turbulence in these other 2 flights lasted only a few minutes. In this AA flight it lasted more than one hour, and combined a go around, a lightning strike, a diversion and a cancellation, all in the same flight (in fact all in the last stage of the same flight). It was sort of too much!!!

[3WE]

Did you died?

Just a little bit.

Sympathies, but also nice to know that you can survive a serious incident and not_totally did died.

Becoming part of an international news story has it's price.

Will there be Youtubes of you talking to the media?- I would think they would kill to talk to an aeroengineer passenger- then again, I think they are only after a 21-word, 7-second sound byte

By the way, I forgot to ask- did you ever fear:

1. That the pilots would have startle factor, forget the type specific- memory checklist, improvise and pull up relentlessly?
2. That they were attempting an autopilot GA on only one autopilot (or do I have the wrong aircraft type/sub-type)?
3. That the underslung engines would cause too much nose-up response on the go-around?

[Gabriel]

Sympathies, but also nice to know that you can survive a serious incident and not_totally did died.

Becoming part of an international news story has it's price.

Will there be Youtubes of you talking to the media?- I would think they would kill to talk to an aeroengineer passenger- then again, I think they are only after a 21-word, 7-second sound byte

Well, nobody did died or was seriously injured. no blood to show, not newsworthy.

By the way, I forgot to ask- did you ever fear:

1. That the pilots would have startle factor, forget the type specific- memory checklist, improvise and pull up relentlessly?
2. That they were attempting an autopilot GA on only one autopilot (or do I have the wrong aircraft type/sub-type)?
3. That the underslung engines would cause too much nose-up response on the go-around?

I can tell you that I was subject to spatial disorientation and didn't know how banked or pitched was the plane, or if the angular roll acceleration my carbon-based accelerometer was detecting was the plane starting to roll to the right or stopping a roll to the left, or which side was up. Under that circumstances, the possibility of loss of control did cross my mind (although my brain didn't elaborate on the exact failure mode). While I might have been a bit concerned at times, I don't think that "fear" and even less "scared" would describe my feeling. I was too busy managing the nausea.

[BoeingBobby]

Many things to say.

1. Boeing Bobby is lying about his experience...and his first name. Boeing Carlo only has 25 years experience.

2. Gabe's experience does hit close to that 'Boeing Bobby' classic argument that one should 'absolutely totally black and white avoid thunderstorms' versus 'we try our best, but sometimes gotta punch through them or the aerospace system and it's schedule will melt down'...

2a. Please relax Bobby, Carlo or whomever you are- no significant personal jabs here, the topic is OFTEN debated, you just exemplify the 'avoid storms at (almost) all cost' argument...it's just that the counter argument is that storm penetration happens a bit more than you seem to profess that it should.

3. What do YOU think Passenger Gabe- did they push it too far here?

Not that most of this even deserves an answer. you do have to land! And if you get stuck in CAT on the way down there is not a lot you can do about it except slow to best turbulence penetration speeds. No idea about the Carlos thing?

[3WE]

No idea about the Carlos thing?

Hey, there is plenty written that convective weather can chew up and spit out airplanes in pieces...even giant, beautiful, strong airplanes flown by International Super Geniuses like you.. And often this is written in sources that are said to be reliable (such as, The Airperson's Information Manual)

Carlo's post at Av Herald (now probably WAY down on the list) there sounds very much like several of yours here...and no foul...storms have been known 1) to spit out parts and 2) to make self-loading freight puke and swear that they will avoid your livery, and 3) Injure FA's with some regularity 4) zap planes with lightning- which may do nothing; however, still cause expensive inspections and out-of-service periods...(All undesirable)

But...the second guessing department has some fairly good data that not everyone avoids storms as thoroughly as you and Carlo do.

I've said it before, If I'm in seat 32E, I'd prefer the pilots adhere to your and Carlo's standards.

But the disparity makes definitely makes for some discussion...No data to support it, but I kind of envision you diverting in Gabe's case...

[LH-B744]

Hm. Is Gabriel the new AA 18 18 (who btw I've not seen here for quite a while)?

A few months ago, I thought that I'd have a quite harmless discussion with AA 1818, and I made one or two jokes about who might have thrown former QF-B763ERs into the shredder.
I'll never forget his answer, which was approx 3 or 13 nautical miles long, so that I needed... 8 forum entries? to answer.

Gabe, if this is your aim, you're on a good way!

I'd appreciate an AA answer here, or at least an answer by someone who likes to be called 'an enthusiast of AA'. I still don't know his profession, although we share this platform since almost a decade.
He was here the last time in October?! It almost seems as if we shouldn't expect his answer in 2016... Nevertheless, he might still read what we write,

A happy New Year's Eve for you, AA 1818!

Back on topic.

[ATLcrew]

Was the Captain a rather short, bemustached character?

[LH-B744]

Hey, there is plenty written that convective weather can chew up and spit out airplanes in pieces...even giant, beautiful, strong airplanes flown by International Super Geniuses like you.. [...] .

I only know the age of four or five "jetphotos seniors". And I don't think that age is what really matters.

But (at least as far as I can think back tonight) I've always shown respect to members, who
a) are way longer here than me
or
b) have written (much) more forum entries than me.

Isn't this a thing that doesn't work vice versa? We should show some patience with members who are not here as long as both of us, or, and this seems to be your part,
with members who by far don't write a forum entry every day.

I am with you. We both know what happened on May 31st 2009. Mother nature is strong, and again, we MUST show respect, in form of a diversion or, if outside it's not flight weather at all, "we" (i.e. LH) also cancel intercontinental flights!

Health is the most precious good which we have. We don't own a second one!

[LH-B744]

Do we need a second or third example?

This year at least one LH flight to KMCO was completely cancelled due to a weather that had been declared as 'irresponsible for jet flights'.

Why do I know that. Well, should I really explain which a/c is used on this flight tomorrow... ?

[Gabriel]

And if you get stuck in CAT on the way down there is not a lot you can do about it

This was no CAT.