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Eva B773 at LAX: Wrong ATC instructions, confusion, terrain near miss

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  • Eva B773 at LAX: Wrong ATC instructions, confusion, terrain near miss



    Hard to imagine this happening in my backyard the other night, but here it is. I would have loved to have been up on Mt. Wilson that evening, you have an excellent view to the south.

    Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

  • #2
    That was rather close.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

    Comment


    • #3
      U.S. officials are investigating after an air traffic controller error sent a jet from Los Angeles International Airport into the flight path of an Air Canada plane flying low over Southern California mountains.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hm. Is youtu dot be a respectable link? I try to make it like Arrow (#3), use a second or 3rd source.

        And I have found this one. Leftseat, which I haven't met here for a very long time (some people only show up once a year after they completed 5000 entries?), should tell us if this is the happening that he'd mentioned:

        The avherald concerning a happening on last Friday.
        The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
        This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
          That was rather close.
          Avherald for me was more helpful, if what Leftseat mentioned happened last Friday, which I assume, without that he confirmed it.

          The B773 (t/o position 1 for me) flew 07R, then 090, then due to ATC order a left turn to 180? So, they turned from 090 via the North to the South?
          ---
          On a parallel rwy (t/o position 2 for me), a 788 was cleared to t/o to the North.

          I know a little bit about parallel rwys and t/o slots at international airports... But what I don't know, were the 773 and the 788 really flying one after the other? Not a single a/c in between?

          That'd be rather close, as Brian said, even if the 773 didn't make 'a pause' during this 270 degree left turn...

          [Is this rather unusual? I'm just thinkin if I'd order a 773 to perform a maneuver like that - which for the #2 in the line almost could seem like a hold.. I know that 747s don't turn on a cup of coffee when once in the air.]

          One news anchor once said, don't know if it was Holt, that situations like that happen more than only once a year. But the alliance finally made it (both 'our alliance'),
          plus a 3rd one who only comments it, in a happy state of mind...

          No one was harmed, and all a/c reached their destinations? Good.
          Last edited by LH-B744; 2016-12-21, 23:43. Reason: LAX
          The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
          This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
            Hm. Is youtu dot be a respectable link? I try to make it like Arrow (#3), use a second or 3rd source.

            And I have found this one. Leftseat, which I haven't met here for a very long time (some people only show up once a year after they completed 5000 entries?), should tell us if this is the happening that he'd mentioned:

            The avherald concerning a happening on last Friday.
            I already put the avherald link in the original post. The youtube is useful for the ATC communication with Flightradar24 animation. Shows you exactly what happened.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post

              Hard to imagine this happening in my backyard the other night, but here it is. I would have loved to have been up on Mt. Wilson that evening, you have an excellent view to the south.

              http://avherald.com/h?article=4a25c5e6&opt=6144
              Beyond the big embedded thing, I didn't see the second link. Sorry.

              PS: I don't have an overview over LAX every day. Leftseat, what should've been the correct ATC instruction? Btw hello and.. a good afternoon.

              I tried to edit my #5 with 'the Friday as I understood it'.
              Last edited by LH-B744; 2016-12-21, 23:55. Reason: Pacific TimeZone
              The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
              This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

              Comment


              • #8
                Bit of a goatrope, to be sure.

                Couple of things worth mentioning. The first non-standard thing about all this is that they were departing to the East at all. I've been flying into LAX for nearly 3 years now, and have NEVER departed to the East, and only landed to the East (on 06R) exactly once. I don't know how much experience this particular crew had with LAX, but if they had much, I can't help but think they would have been that much more on their toes just because the procedure was one that does not normally take place. A crew with operational experience in LAX would also be well-aware of all that granite to the North (I usually have my TERR display on going in and out of there), and would have likely not turned left initially. Once they made that turn, things began to deteriorate very rapidly, and the controller certainly didn't help much.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                  I already put the avherald link in the original post. The youtube is useful for the ATC communication with Flightradar24 animation. Shows you exactly what happened.
                  Yes. I'll try the youtu be. But avherald is really useful for me, sometimes the best movies are in your head, and now I have one. A question that didn't fit into my #5:

                  The 773 and the 788, both are equipped with TCAS, which also seems to have been really really useful in this case. But the 773 also has GPWS, which, at least if directly under the aircraft, should 'show' an obstacle like Mt. Wilson.

                  They almost directly crossed this mountain with alt 6000? Wow. Apparently, "robots" can't correct every mistake.

                  I assume that Mt. Wilson has both,
                  a) a radial for a LAX VOR
                  and
                  b) a dme number for LAX.

                  A GPWS is, after I've read what it can not do, nothing compared to a well prepared flight?

                  I'll prepare my semipro LH-B744 simulator yet a bit stronger. This is the reason:
                  What a 'robot' can't do (blind spot).

                  PS: Leftseat, You opened a topic where I've learned something new (about the numerous 'robots' on board). That doesn't happen every day.
                  Thanks alot, man!
                  Last edited by LH-B744; 2016-12-22, 01:08. Reason: Thank You.
                  The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                  The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                  And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                  This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                    Bit of a goatrope, to be sure.

                    Couple of things worth mentioning. The first non-standard thing about all this is that they were departing to the East at all. I've been flying into LAX for nearly 3 years now, and have NEVER departed to the East, and only landed to the East (on 06R) exactly once. I don't know how much experience this particular crew had with LAX, but if they had much, I can't help but think they would have been that much more on their toes just because the procedure was one that does not normally take place. A crew with operational experience in LAX would also be well-aware of all that granite to the North (I usually have my TERR display on going in and out of there), and would have likely not turned left initially. Once they made that turn, things began to deteriorate very rapidly, and the controller certainly didn't help much.
                    We're doing it today too...usually happens outside of the early morning hours (12am-6am) on days when rain & weather systems move through the area and the wind turns around instead of coming off the ocean. Current wind is 060/8kts.

                    The EVA Air flight was on the Ventura 7 SID which is pretty vague about which way they should go after take-off, just radar vectors to VTU. I don't know why the crew seemed so confused though, it should have been obvious after a while the controller wanted them on a heading of 180 and they were going in the opposite direction. Also why would anyone vector an airplane going east after take-off to turn LEFT to 180? It would take them back over the airport almost and into other traffic, which it did. Better to query "confirm LEFT to 180 or RIGHT turn?"

                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I haven't yet found out the sense of youtu be links.

                      Here is the original one (?!):

                      your tube dot com, EVA B77W

                      PS: ... Which directly brings me to the next question. Who on this planet is
                      a) able
                      and
                      b) willing (due to whatever mood he or she is in right now)
                      and
                      c) OFFICALLY licensed (by all airlines that are involved, by the chief of LAX airport, by all LAX ATCs ?!)

                      to publish discussions that definitely only take place between two men, or between a jet pilot and a young woman. I only know one thing. I am not VASAviation!

                      Not all discussions should be published. That's a thing that I've discussed with 3WE. Does the Donald only protect Russia, or also young women (oh my God, I already know the answer) who work in his country?

                      'Did she lose the election because she is a woman?' I only very rarely quote myself, but, sometimes it really makes sense.
                      Last edited by LH-B744; 2016-12-22, 02:28. Reason: ?!
                      The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                      The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                      And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                      This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        .be is the Belgium country domain identifier.
                        Youtu.be is just another domain owned by Youtube, and if you go to youtu.be you will go to the same Youtube main page than youtube.com.

                        There are 2 theories of why Youtube created this URL in Belgium:
                        1- To avoid that other persons register it and use the Youtube brand for phishing or for their benefit.
                        2- To use shortened URLs, with things like Twitter or cellphones in mind. For example, www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlDXQdgx_QU takes you to the same video than youtu.be/xlDXQdgx_QU, in both cases within the same Youtube site.

                        This fashion to use the country domain identifier as part of the name of the site is not so original from youtube. You have a lot of sites, mainly TV stations, that are like xyz.tv. The .tv is used as TeleVision, of course, but it is not officially that. It is the country identifier for Tuvalu, a small island state that let a lot of company register their websites in their country, for a fee of course.

                        In any event, youtu.be is completely thrustworthy and safe, or at least as thrustworthy and safe as www.youtube.com, because it just an alias for the same site.

                        See how much you can learn by googling "what is youtu.be"?

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Gabe.

                          Good thing to meet you. And I have found out something about VASAviation. Must be some very young men, much younger than you, and only online (?!) since May 2008. Given that I read this forum since almost exactly a decade, that seems to me like a very bad joke.

                          VASAviation (youtube member since May 2008_), origin: Spain.

                          Aha. Spain publishes discussions that, by Lufthansa, Germany, have been declared as 'not open to the whole planet' ?

                          That's an interesting statement. I'll stay tuned!
                          Last edited by LH-B744; 2016-12-22, 02:56. Reason: Spain?! I hope that youtube is precise enough.
                          The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                          This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [Just makin a call. Spain?! Always a guest with good behaviour at my home airport. So, I completely don't understand this "video".]

                            Back again in just under five minutes.
                            The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                            This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ok. It took 2 minutes longer to come back. But Iberia can't be really serious with that video. Either fake news or fake IP (à la I am sitting in Trump Tower and play a little bit with IP).

                              Youtu be and youtube dot com is no longer a respectable news source. And it has never been. I know eight or nine Spanish men. Normally, they are proud that so many tourists visit Mallorca...................

                              For detail, ask Seahawk.
                              The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                              This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                              Comment

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