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Evan, add Go2Sky and Norwegian Air Shuttle to your no-fly list

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  • Evan, add Go2Sky and Norwegian Air Shuttle to your no-fly list

    A flight crew performance so bad that it scared the cabin crew out of the plane.

    Impossible to do a summary, so many things went wrong there...

    Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

  • #2
    It wasn't a problem with Norwegian Air Shuttle, they simply supplied the cabin crew. The cabin crew acted perfectly in refusing to fly with a totally incompetent flight deck crew any more once they landed at Oslo. The pilots, and I use the term "pilot" in its loosest possible sense, should have their licences immediately revoked.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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    • #3
      See my comments on the thread about Israeli passengers refusing to fly on a last-minute substitution (non-Israeli) carrier. We need a LAW that states that passengers should be informed whenever the flight is operated by a substituted operator and that LAW should require the original operator to compensate or rebook any passengers who decline to board that substituted flight.

      Our only defense against this kind of stoogery is to fly with trusted carriers. If trusted carriers can substitute flight crews without our choice or knowledge, it not only defeats that defense, it also violates the implied contract between the brand and the consumer.

      (Now TeeVee will point out that this does not violate the contract-of-carriage, and he will be right because contracts-of carriage are currently contracts-of-adhesion. THAT needs to change)

      So much work to do on consumer rights in aviation...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
        It wasn't a problem with Norwegian Air Shuttle, they simply supplied the cabin crew.
        AvHerald: A Go2Sky Boeing 737-800 on behalf of Norwegian Air Shuttle...

        If that's correct, than I disagree with you, Brian. The "supplier" of the service was Norwegian Air Shuttle. Whoever they sub-contract to put the plane, pilot, or catering (to give an example) it is still their responsibility. The money from the tickets went to Norwegian Air Shuttle and it is they who used this money to pay their sub-suppliers, their own costs, and hopefully make a profit.

        If the clutch of your new Ford car fails withing the first 1000 miles, you will not be happy with Ford telling you "ah, but the clutch is Valeo, not Ford".

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #5
          While I don't condone any of the bad actions of the flight crew it would appear that they at least knew their basic airmanship and got the passengers to where they needed to be safely. Give me this any day over the polite crew that 'relentlessly pull up' in a stall, fly beyond fuel minimums or let OTTO auto land with no throttle input
          Last edited by vaztr; 2016-12-06, 22:01. Reason: moved an inverted comma

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            AvHerald: A Go2Sky Boeing 737-800 on behalf of Norwegian Air Shuttle...

            If that's correct, than I disagree with you, Brian. The "supplier" of the service was Norwegian Air Shuttle. Whoever they sub-contract to put the plane, pilot, or catering (to give an example) it is still their responsibility. The money from the tickets went to Norwegian Air Shuttle and it is they who used this money to pay their sub-suppliers, their own costs, and hopefully make a profit.

            If the clutch of your new Ford car fails withing the first 1000 miles, you will not be happy with Ford telling you "ah, but the clutch is Valeo, not Ford".
            Other way around Gabriel. This is from the posted report...

            LN-NII is in the process of being handed over from Norwegian Air Shuttle to Go2Sky, the actual transfer of ownership is expected by early January 2017. Editorial Note: The aircraft had already been transferred onto the Air Operator's Certificate of Go2Sky prior to the occurrence according to CAA Norway's statement received on Dec 6th 2016.
            It was a Go2Sky flight operating under Go2Fly Operators Certificate with a Go2Fly flight crew. The only NAS input was to pour the coffees and try to keep the passengers calm when the operation of the flight went to ratshit !
            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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            • #7
              Is Norwegian Air Shuttle related to Norwegian Air International (who just received permission to operate into the USA)?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                Other way around Gabriel. This is from the posted report...


                It was a Go2Sky flight operating under Go2Fly Operators Certificate with a Go2Fly flight crew. The only NAS input was to pour the coffees and try to keep the passengers calm when the operation of the flight went to ratshit !
                As I understand it (and it seems pretty clear) it was a Norwegian Air Shuttle-branded flight. That is what matters. People purchased what they thought was a NAS flight, feeling safe with that choice. They were then handed over to a Go2Fly flight crew who obviously weren't pilot material. Shutting off fuel switches after a configuration warning? Forgetting to set pressurization (obviously skipping checklists). This could have been a fatality if not for the safeguards of the aircraft. If I had been on this flight you can be damn sure I would be filing a lawsuit.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  As I understand it (and it seems pretty clear) it was a Norwegian Air Shuttle-branded flight. That is what matters. People purchased what they thought was a NAS flight, feeling safe with that choice. They were then handed over to a Go2Fly flight crew who obviously weren't pilot material. Shutting off fuel switches after a configuration warning? Forgetting to set pressurization (obviously skipping checklists). This could have been a fatality if not for the safeguards of the aircraft. If I had been on this flight you can be damn sure I would be filing a lawsuit.
                  Maybe it was made clear in the tickets that the flight was operated by G2F.

                  I have bought a ticket recently that, in the flight purchasing website, in the reservation, in the ticket itself, and probably in boarding pass too (when I do the check in) says "Flight AA XYZ, operated by Mesa Airlines as American Eagle".

                  I am not even sure what part each actor play there, and what are each of them responsible, accountable and liable for.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                    Is Norwegian Air Shuttle related to Norwegian Air International (who just received permission to operate into the USA)?
                    Yes....but they don't use Go2Fly flight crews !!
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      Maybe it was made clear in the tickets that the flight was operated by G2F.

                      I have bought a ticket recently that, in the flight purchasing website, in the reservation, in the ticket itself, and probably in boarding pass too (when I do the check in) says "Flight AA XYZ, operated by Mesa Airlines as American Eagle".
                      Those are typically ongoing partnership arrangements where the brand has a formal relationship with the subcontractor. The customer has reason to believe the brand has properly vetted the subcontractor at that point. I have no problem with that as long as it is prominently displayed AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. But this, it seems, was nothing of the sort.

                      I am not even sure what part each actor play there, and what are each of them responsible, accountable and liable for.
                      Are you serious? This flight crew had no business being in a cockpit.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post
                        Are you serious? This flight crew had no business being in a cockpit.
                        I mean in an AA flight operated by Mesa as AEagle. What is the role each company plays? What is the responsibility, accountability and liability of each company?

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          I mean in an AA flight operated by Mesa as AEagle. What is the role each company plays? What is the responsibility, accountability and liability of each company?
                          Well, legally, who can say. Consumer protection laws are an impotent joke these days, since the lawmakers are all bought and paid for by the industries they are supposed to regulate.

                          Ethically, the gateway brand (AA) is responsible for the safety and experience of the customer. If they decide to subcontract, it is their obligation to ensure that the subcontractor (MESA) is up to par with the gateway brand. Brand is all about gaining trust. Ethics are all about living up to that trust. And if something goes wrong, the gateway brand will take the hit. (When Colgan 3407 went down, it was rightly reported as a Continental flight and damaged their brand.)

                          In terms of liability, if the gateway brand (NAS) doesn't provide transparency about subcontractors (GO2FLY), I feel pretty confident that a case can be made against them, despite the contract-of-adhesion, uh, I mean contract-of-carriage.

                          Legal revolutions have to start somewhere. Precedent is the currency. Hopefully NAS gets the shaft for this one.

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