Greenland Dash 8 guides Twin Cessna to safety

[3WE]

May the Cessna 441 have been approaching at 140 kts until short final?

Over the years, I have heard lots of talk about the ability of smaller planes to keep up with fast ones when operating at busy airports.

A favorite quote was that a 182 (clean and full power) could do 120 knots on final and not screw up the approaches at a busy airport.

Ok, I think it still falls about 30 knots short of 'seamlessly merging', but the point is that "the little plane going a bit fast while the big plane goes a bit slow" is a common practice done to sort of help keep traffic moving smoothly- even though speeds may not be equal.

And a twin versus a turboprop brings the speeds even more closely in line (not in terms of equaling, but in terms of some overlap).

[Gabriel]

Over the years, I have heard lots of talk about the ability of smaller planes to keep up with fast ones when operating at busy airports.

A favorite quote was that a 182 (clean and full power) could do 120 knots on final and not screw up the approaches at a busy airport.

The difference is that the 441 cruises at 260kts.

[Gabriel]

It was a 421.

Nothing to see, we'll never know the details. Case closed with no investigation.

On Nov 22nd 2016 Canada's TSB reported the Cessna 421 was enroute at FL210 when the crew reported they lost oil from the left hand engine. The left hand engine lost power at position N59 W48 - about 150nm southwest of Narsasuaq -, the pilot shut the engine down and declared emergency. The TSB wrote: "The pilot continued on to Greenland but diverted to Paamiut airport (BGPT) due to poor weather at BGBW and landed safely." The occurrence was rated an incident and will not be investigated.

[3WE]

Nothing to see, we'll never know the details.

No!

We must thoroughly scrutinize the actions of the Dash-8 crew!

Has anyone run a simulation on MSFS to see if there would have been a better way to handle the situation?

[kent olsen]

Well if you read the news report you would see the "Twin Cessna" was a Cessna 421. It seems many of you are 1) not familiar with the Cessna 421 and 2) may never have flown around Greenland.

The 421 is a pressurized twin with geared turbo-charged engines, cool, but. When you lose an engine you are now down to maybe 110-=120kts level and full rudder trim that requires constant attention from, you guessed it one pilot. The auto-pilot cannot be used so now hold on and try to find a near by airport, oh yeah we're in Greenland. If this is your 1st engine out in a light twin you're scared.

Then when you get to the lower altitude, because you are on only one engine, SE rate of climb is around 200fpm, so if you lose any altitude it will take all your attention to get it back and there are lots of mountains in Greenland. Low altitudes in Greenland ' can be ' very difficult to find a horizon, all white below and frequently the skies have a white haze as well that makes visual reference difficult.

Oh did I forget you are scared!!!!!!!

[3WE]

Well if you read the news report you would see the "Twin Cessna" was a Cessna 421. It seems many of you are 1) not familiar with the Cessna 421 and 2) may never have flown around Greenland.

The 421 is a pressurized twin with geared turbo-charged engines, cool, but. When you lose an engine you are now down to maybe 110-=120kts level and full rudder trim that requires constant attention from, you guessed it one pilot. The auto-pilot cannot be used so now hold on and try to find a near by airport, oh yeah we're in Greenland. If this is your 1st engine out in a light twin you're scared.

Then when you get to the lower altitude, because you are on only one engine, SE rate of climb is around 200fpm, so if you lose any altitude it will take all your attention to get it back and there are lots of mountains in Greenland. Low altitudes in Greenland ' can be ' very difficult to find a horizon, all white below and frequently the skies have a white haze as well that makes visual reference difficult.

Oh did I forget you are scared!!!!!!!

No, I have never flown around Greenland.

That being said, if you have a license to pilot a twin in instrument conditions (and are current), you are supposedly trained and capable to aviate, navigate, communicate and land the single engine version of your aircraft in an approach to minimums in Greenland, Africa, Chicago, Denver, New Yark, Flyover International Airport, or Sweet Monkey River, Texas. (Maybe the navigate and especially communicate get lower priorities, but (arguably) this should "just" be "do what you are trained to do".) (I quoted "just" for a reason)

I do acknowledge that that might be a significant white-knuckle feat, and definitely more difficult to do than to analyze it all from a computer keyboard at 0 knots and 0 ft AGL.

It all kinda makes for an interesting discussion..."How dare an airliner compromise passenger safety to help a lowly twin with a much lower body count on board". "Shouldn't the twin dude been able to handle it...should he not have his stuff arranged and his plan made for (not if but) when he loses an engine?"

Of course, I often wonder if this isn't a much more mundane incident where human nature actually shined...repeating from above: I wonder if the Dash-8 didn't offer up the assistance to be a nice guy and the twin pilot accepted it using some basic CRM rules of 'use the resources you have wisely'...Peace, Love and Happy non-offensive Holidays to all.

[brianw999]

.......Peace, Love and Happy non-offensive Holidays to all.

Does that mean Merry Christmas ?

[3WE]

Does that mean Merry Christmas ?

It may indeed mean Merry Christmas to you...or not...just being politically correct