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Boeing Bobby (or anyone else) Turning into a tailwind after take off.

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  • Boeing Bobby (or anyone else) Turning into a tailwind after take off.

    Although I've gotten better, I have a slightly rational/mostly irrational fear of airplanes stalling out of steep climbs after takeoff (or in cruise too ).

    In thinking about things, If you take off and there's a strong crosswind, and then after takeoff, turn to where the wind becomes a tail wind that you would likely lose some airspeed and that might lead to a stall (please, no lectures, I know that speed is not a direct cause of stalls)

    This is probably something that does not apply to big, powerful airliners, but would the airspeed loss from turning into a tail wind be something that might be of some significance to a light plane? I would hope that pilots turn slowly and have some extra speed to deal with this speed loss.

    Is this a significant concern to a light plane?
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    Although I've gotten better, I have a slightly rational/mostly irrational fear of airplanes stalling out of steep climbs after takeoff (or in cruise too ).

    In thinking about things, If you take off and there's a strong crosswind, and then after takeoff, turn to where the wind becomes a tail wind that you would likely lose some airspeed and that might lead to a stall (please, no lectures, I know that speed is not a direct cause of stalls)

    This is probably something that does not apply to big, powerful airliners, but would the airspeed loss from turning into a tail wind be something that might be of some significance to a light plane? I would hope that pilots turn slowly and have some extra speed to deal with this speed loss.

    Is this a significant concern to a light plane?

    It would have to be one hell of a tail wind. I have a 70 year old Piper J-3 Cub that has a whole 65 H.P. does not concern me in that. But you better ask Gabriel I am sure he has a much different explanation and view on the subject.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      It would have to be one hell of a tail wind. I have a 70 year old Piper J-3 Cub that has a whole 65 H.P. does not concern me in that. But you better ask Gabriel I am sure he has a much different explanation and view on the subject.
      BB, you are doing quite well so far. The only difference is that I would go length (that nobody would read) to explain WHY is that the case.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #4
        I would just like to point out to Boeing Bobby that this was his 747th post. Savor that.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          I would just like to point out to Boeing Bobby that this was his 747th post. Savor that.
          aw man! now you're gonna make that 747 nut all jealous...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
            It would have to be one hell of a tail wind. I have a 70 year old Piper J-3 Cub that has a whole 65 H.P. does not concern me in that.
            And if it was one hell of a tail wind? (but steady)

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              And if it was one hell of a tail wind? (but steady)
              Let me play Gabriel...a 90-degree turn is going to take 30 seconds (assuming the standard 2-min turn)

              So, even if you had a 60 knot crosswind, the Cub is going to have 30 seconds to gain that 60 knots of extra ground speed...isn't 30 seconds basically "an entire takeoff run"...

              Bobby's right, it's not of any practical significance. (And he does live in the real world as opposed to our pencil-pushing world).
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                Let me play Gabriel...a 90-degree turn is going to take 30 seconds (assuming the standard 2-min turn)

                So, even if you had a 60 knot crosswind, the Cub is going to have 30 seconds to gain that 60 knots of extra ground speed...isn't 30 seconds basically "an entire takeoff run"...

                Bobby's right, it's not of any practical significance. (And he does live in the real world as opposed to our pencil-pushing world).
                Let me see if I have this straight: You are taking off in a light plane with a 60kt crosswind and you want to know if turning is dangerous? Yes, very, beginning with turning onto the runway.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  Let me see if I have this straight: You are taking off in a light plane with a 60kt crosswind and you want to know if turning is dangerous? Yes, very, beginning with turning onto the runway.
                  One of my favorite things to do in the Cub is when we have a cold front move through South Florida. The grass strip that we have runs East/West and is 3000' long. With a North wind 20 knots or so shoot as many crosswind landings in an hour as possible. And I will still 3 point them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    And if it was one hell of a tail wind? (but steady) And you make a 45 deg bank turn (which in a Cub will be closer to a 2-second than a 2-minute turn) into tailwind? Would that turn be any more dangerous than a 45 deg turn made at the same airspeed with no wind?
                    Re-stating...

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      Re-stating...

                      Not if I am flying it!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                        Although I've gotten better, I have a slightly rational/mostly irrational fear of airplanes stalling out of steep climbs after takeoff (or in cruise too ).

                        In thinking about things, If you take off and there's a strong crosswind, and then after takeoff, turn to where the wind becomes a tail wind that you would likely lose some airspeed and that might lead to a stall (please, no lectures, I know that speed is not a direct cause of stalls)

                        This is probably something that does not apply to big, powerful airliners, but would the airspeed loss from turning into a tail wind be something that might be of some significance to a light plane? I would hope that pilots turn slowly and have some extra speed to deal with this speed loss.

                        Is this a significant concern to a light plane?
                        Could you give an example? Or let me try that....
                        Let's assume 194 @ 6 . They see who requests t/o, and they give you the KJFK 22R . I admit, that's not really a 'light plane' example. But, as in #11, we don't really talk about light planes.
                        You see the lights of the rwy (if it is a night flight), and you check your own lights, I like to have all lights on: both landing lights, both turn lights, taxi light, nav light, strobe light, and logo light.
                        Rotate. And on that rwy, I don't need a 180° (left) turn, but let's assume that. That means, you should expect 6 that blew right into 'the left side of your face', and after a 180° turn, it becomes a tailwind with 6, into your right tail fin.

                        A tailwind with 6 should be manageable even with a Baron 58. Imho, no problem.
                        The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                        This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          I would just like to point out to Boeing Bobby that this was his 747th post. Savor that.
                          737 is also a good number.
                          The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                          This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                            Not if a competent pilot is flying it!
                            Good answer! (slightly edited, but I wold guess that you would agree that, in your case, "I" = "a competent pilot")

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              Good answer! (slightly edited, but I wold guess that you would agree that, in your case, "I" = "a competent pilot")
                              ... a good number, 738.

                              Are you sure? I mean, how do you know that, he is a 747F pilot, i.e. no pax, no windows, no customers who could be able to complain, if...
                              yes if not a horse or a Lamborghini is on board...

                              I assume that you haven't been yet a passenger with #11 in the cockpit, or have you?

                              With a glimpse on our watches, it is... 2056 z, 2156 DUS time, or 1656 in Buenos Aires? So let me take the chance, before you take dinner.

                              What is a 'strong tailwind'? As long as I use umbrellas, I have found out that 17 (Bft 5) sometimes is too much.

                              And what is a 'light plane'? Probably even lighter than a Baron 58, MTOW 5,524 lb.

                              If the wind becomes stronger and the plane becomes even lighter than a B58, it depends, imho. On the wind speed.

                              Greetings to Argentina.
                              The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                              This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                              Comment

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