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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ladylovleylegs View Post
    Your explanation makes a lot of sense because we were delayed pushing back from the gate. Thank you for this.
    Just went back and re-read the older posts. So they pushed back late, and this was the cause of a rapid decent! Now I am sure you are related to LH-B744

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ladylovleylegs View Post
      It's doesn't fit, sir. I'm too occupied with life to hire a lawyer and go through all that extra crap to fight a large corporation. I simply want them to be accountable and explain themselves.
      Do you understand now that there is nothing for them to be accountable for? It may have been an expedited descent and it might have involved some unexpected turbulence but it was certainly controlled and by no means a 'nose dive'. Do you understand that explanation now?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
        Just looked on the IPAD, doesn't really look that steep. But if they held him up high then made him cross KNOLE @ 17000' yea I guess so. I have looked in the earlier posts but did not see a reference. This in a 73 or 320?
        320. If they hold you high a tad long, and you push for managed descent (VNAV PATH to you Boeing people), sometimes the airplane gets a tad too aggressive trying to catch up to the profile. What I do in that scenario is pull for open descent (LVL CHG to you Boeing people), increase the speed until it gets back on the profile, and then go back to managed descent/managed speed. Tends to be smoother that way. And yes, Evan, that's an approved procedure.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          Do you understand now that there is nothing for them to be accountable for? It may have been an expedited descent and it might have involved some unexpected turbulence but it was certainly controlled and by no means a 'nose dive'. Do you understand that explanation now?
          Here's my token, Devil's Advocate sympathetic post in support of LLL...

          I can recall some good sustained 'push overs' in airliners... the G-factor is notable, the stomach moves up, the butt gets light, the nose goes over and the wind noise increases... I've even sat there thinking that they need to level off soon and seen the flight tracking data that we did get pretty low in a steeper descent.

          We can't say what you felt, and your flight tracking data is too crude to catch it even if you DID encounter a 'remarkable, head-turning' descent. Repeating, your data shows nothing out of the ordinary.

          Nor is there a database nor a flight log of the second-by-second flight parameters.

          There's two possibilities here:

          1. You experienced an actual BRIEF, UNUSUALLY-STEEP descent.

          or

          2. You are over-reacting to a descent (albeit a steep one, but one) totally within the realm of 'acceptable'. (My money is on this one.)

          Either way, you are SOL on getting an explanation... the FDR data are over-written and gone and the rough, 1 minute flight tracking snapshots show nothing unusual.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
            320. If they hold you high a tad long, and you push for managed descent (VNAV PATH to you Boeing people), sometimes the airplane gets a tad too aggressive trying to catch up to the profile. What I do in that scenario is pull for open descent (LVL CHG to you Boeing people), increase the speed until it gets back on the profile, and then go back to managed descent/managed speed. Tends to be smoother that way. And yes, Evan, that's an approved procedure.
            I've never had an issue with open descent at this phase of flight, only at low altitude.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
              320. If they hold you high a tad long, and you push for managed descent (VNAV PATH to you Boeing people), sometimes the airplane gets a tad too aggressive trying to catch up to the profile. What I do in that scenario is pull for open descent (LVL CHG to you Boeing people), increase the speed until it gets back on the profile, and then go back to managed descent/managed speed. Tends to be smoother that way. And yes, Evan, that's an approved procedure.
              Thanks for the explanation, (never flown any bus) and I agree with the FLT LVL Change, we do it all the time especially if you are no longer in LNAV or off the magenta line.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                I've never had an issue with open descent at this phase of flight, only at low altitude.
                What issues did you have with open descent at low altitude?

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #38
                  I'm guessing the beautiful evening slightly steep approach with Hui Thieu Lo, Sum Tang Wong and Ho Lee Phuoc who were scared to hand fly, thought the auto throttles were on, but saw no need to kinda monitor the ASI on final...

                  I seem to recall that Evan was all over the autopilot modes with no interest in Mark IV flight data input and the no-silicon FMS computer processors.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    What issues did you have with open descent at low altitude?

                    Gabriel, He is probably talking about the Asiana 214 accident. Perfectly safe as long as someone is minding the store!

                    Damn, I posted this before I read 3WE's post!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      What issues did you have with open descent at low altitude?
                      Why would you use OP DES or FLCH at low (final approach) altitudes? It involves inherent risks that are entirely unnecessary.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                        Gabriel, He is probably talking about the Asiana 214 accident. Perfectly safe as long as someone is minding the store!

                        Damn, I posted this before I read 3WE's post!
                        That's ok...unfortunately, I feel so very self-important when, as an outsider-ass-hat, I say something largely equivalent to what a true insider says: "Perfectly safe as long as someone is minding the store" ~= "need to kinda monitor the ASI on final"
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          Why would you use OP DES or FLCH at low (final approach) altitudes? It involves inherent risks that are entirely unnecessary.
                          At final approach is completely out of sense, but if you are still on the approach environment, let´s say 20-10 miles from landing, mixing the aircraft configuration plus using LVL CHG in my case helps you to debug ATC mistakes...or mines!

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