Bottle to Throttle: From A/A to AA...

[Evan]

Failed the breathilizer and the blood test:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/26/us/american-airlines-co-pilot-detained/index.html

AA cancelled the flight. The pilot cancelled his career.

[Gabriel]

This might sound ridiculous, but why not do a breathilizer to both pilots before every flight?
The likely effect is not that you will catch the ones that violated the "bottle to throttle" standard, but that there will be no violations, because one thing is to know that you might be caught (you make take the risk) and a different one to know that you will be caught.

[3WE]

This might sound ridiculous, but why not do a breathilizer to both pilots before every flight?
The likely effect is not that you will catch the ones that violated the "bottle to throttle" standard, but that there will be no violations, because one thing is to know that you might be caught (you make take the risk) and a different one to know that you will be caught.

Ok, but pretty insulting to a lot of extremely devoted folks with the utmost attention to professionalism and safety...

...and have we had any drunk flying crashes recently? Two-crew CRM is an awfully good firewall too.

[Gabriel]

Ok, but pretty insulting to a lot of extremely devoted folks with the utmost attention to professionalism and safety...

I would expect (maybe because that's how I think I would feel if I was one of them) that the extremely devoted folks with the utmost attention to professionalism and safety would be glad to participate in such a program because it can save them from flying with an intoxicated partner, and they would know that "test the others but not me" is not feasible.

Also, we are not talking of a highly invasive and annoying and expensive test. A breathilizer test takes 20 seconds, costs perhaps 20 cents, and involves blowing through a tube. Simple. Cheap. Practical.

[Evan]

I would expect (maybe because that's how I think I would feel if I was one of them) that the extremely devoted folks with the utmost attention to professionalism and safety would be glad to participate in such a program because it can save them from flying with an intoxicated partner, and they would know that "test the others but not me" is not feasible.

Also, we are not talking of a highly invasive and annoying and expensive test. A breathilizer test takes 20 seconds, costs perhaps 20 cents, and involves blowing through a tube. Simple. Cheap. Practical.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think every crew should have anonymous access to a breathilizer before they ever walk onto the tarmac. If they have any doubt they can voluntarilly check themselves. If they fail they can declare themselves unfit to fly. No violation. But I suspect the problem here is denial and self confidence x some underlying personal issues. It doesn't take any special brainpower to know that if you have a flight in x hours you need to stay off the sauce. It you can't adhere to that basic logic, you have a problem.

[Gabriel]

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think every crew should have anonymous access to a breathilizer before they ever walk onto the tarmac. If they have any doubt they can voluntarilly check themselves. If they fail they can declare themselves unfit to fly. No violation. But I suspect the problem here is denial and self confidence x some underlying personal issues. It doesn't take any special brainpower to know that if you have a flight in x hours you need to stay off the sauce. It you can't adhere to that basic logic, you have a problem.

And yes, there are persons (including some pilots) that can't adhere to that basic logic and yes, they do have a problem. What will you do with them?

You are oversimplifying. Addictions (or even temptations, and human behavior in general) are more complex that that.

Also, a pilot cannot declare himself unfit to fly for being under the influence without trashing his career, so that would be a great incentive not to declare himself unfit to fly.
A mandatory test would be more effective to prevent that pilots arrive to the airport under the influence to begin with.

You put too much reliance on human beings. Humans, including pilots, are not fully predictable and reliable, are subject to addictions, make wrong choices, do not always follow all the rules, sometimes succumb to temptation, etc... If that wasn't the case, enforcement would not exist.

[3WE]

...You put too much reliance on human beings...

Are you drunk?

[brianw999]

As a paramedic I was subject to the possibility of random drink and drugs testing. No problem for me, I didn't drink before a shift and I don't do drugs. It kept me safe from drunk or drugged crew mates as well.
I would be in favour of enforced drink breath tests for pilots.

[Evan]

Also, a pilot cannot declare himself unfit to fly for being under the influence without trashing his career, so that would be a great incentive not to declare himself unfit to fly.

If the voluntary test was truly anonymous (and there are ways to do this), the pilot could declare himself unfit for any number of reasons, like sudden illness. I'm not expecting a pilot to say. "I can't make it today because I'm still drunk" anymore than in any other profession. I expect them to lie. "I must had ate something bad.." etc.

This doesn't address the underlying issue of addiction though. It just gives pilots who have a lingering sense of responsibility a last defense against themselves.

I'm not against a mandatory test. I just don't think that is in the cards and a voluntary test could be available in the meantime. There are breathilizer systems for cars that defeat the ignition systems. Should we also do that? "Before start checklist... blow... green...."