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Evan, add Passadero to your no-fly list

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    I prefer a VFR landing at midnight, as long as it is VMC of course, over an NDB or VOR approach in IMC day or night anyday.
    VFR landings tend to be very safe even at night, especially if the runway has a VASI or PAPI.
    I prefer an ILS, NDB or VOR approach in VMC or IMC after dark.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Evan View Post
      I prefer an NDB approach in IMC after dark.
      Over a visual approach to a VASI/PAPI equiped runway?

      You don't know what you are talking about. Have you ever seen an ADF in action?

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        Over a visual approach to a VASI/PAPI equiped runway?
        I prefer neither. I prefer precision approaches or failing that, very expertly flown navaid-directed non-precision approaches. I don't like the idea of visual approaches on pax flights at night. I don't like landing on cornfields or GA runways on the same heading as the main airport.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          Over a visual approach to a VASI/PAPI equiped runway?

          You don't know what you are talking about. Have you ever seen an ADF in action?
          I too prefer an NDB over visual in IMC at night.

          Now if you DO have visual contact, glideslope guidance vs no glideslope guidance is preferable (although minimums may have something to do with obstacles).

          EDIT: Further clarification that Evan may also have a point for night VMC if there's terrain. The NDB approach would provide terrain separation, while visually you would not blindly folow a swinging needle, but suppliment your heading visually....

          ...and when you finally reach minimums or some intelligent point, nothing prohibits the use of a VASI/PAPI.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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          • #20
            Just how often are NDB approaches used these days in regular commercial airline operations ?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by HalcyonDays View Post
              Just how often are NDB approaches used these days in regular commercial airline operations ?
              Indeed...GPS and electronics are generally able to do much better with near zero infrastructure.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by HalcyonDays View Post
                Just how often are NDB approaches used these days in regular commercial airline operations ?
                Depends on your definition. Actual raw-data NDB with just needles probably never (much like actual raw-data ILS). Flying them off the FMS with a bearing pointer displayed for legality is slightly more common...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                  Depends on your definition. Actual raw-data NDB with just needles probably never (much like actual raw-data ILS). Flying them off the FMS with a bearing pointer displayed for legality is slightly more common...
                  USA or less developed areas?
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    USA or less developed areas?
                    I can't imagine anyone with the capability to fly those sorts of approached off the glass rather than off the needles wouldn't do so, regardless of locality. In fact, it would be even more advisable in less developed areas due to the condition of navaids often being a big unknown.

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                    • #25
                      True, but developed countries tend to use resources to make GPS approaches out of NDB or VOR approaches, and even develop better precision or non-precision GPS approaches where no instrument approach was available (not even NDB).

                      A GPS non-precision approach is much more solid and stable (and hence safe) than an NDB approach even if both of them are flown using the glass.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #26

                        Source: http://avherald.com/h?article=4921bc12&opt=0
                        Attached Files

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          Good looking soybeans.

                          One failure of this jetphoto is that it shows neither the actual TDZE nor the traditional TDZE. I also found the focus and lighting to be bad, the aircraft to be cropped horribly (all I see is a little clip of the windshield wiper and nose), and maybe even some dust spots. It will probably be rejected.
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            Is that the wheel track from the botched landing attempt on the left? If so, than definitely not visual on the runway. But then, no approach lighting at night, why should they be? I'm happy to place this bucolic scene on my no-VFR-at-night-fly-list.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                              One failure of this jetphoto is that it shows neither the actual TDZE
                              It does show the actual TDZ. Cue: look for mashed soybeans and a fence.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                                It does show the actual TDZ. Cue: look for mashed soybeans and a fence.
                                Hmmm...it looks too narrow to be an ATR and the lousy alignment with the runway makes me want to think "no"...but it's all ass hat parlour talk...
                                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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