Originally posted by elaw
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Originally posted by elaw View PostI would assume that the design goal for the system is for it to be able to extinguish any type of fire that reasonably would be anticipated.
Keep in mind that 99% of the time that the engines are running, aircraft are airborne. The engine fire suppression system only delivers suppression agent for a few seconds at most. That usually would not be long enough to make a significant difference in getting pax out of the aircraft, and definitely is not long enough to get the aircraft down from 30,000 feet onto a runway, stopped, and the pax evacuated.
Didn't you all see the videos? Or are we talking of a different case here?
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostThere was an uncontained engine failure.
Shrapnel severed fuel tanks or fuel lines.
Fuel started to spill. With the airplane in motion, that is not much of a problem.
When the plane stopped, the fuel started to form a puddle or pool (hence the name) and something (hot brakes, hot shrapnel from the engine, sparks) ignited it.
The fuel still kept spilling so the fire had a constant source of fuel to keep burning. In the meantime it also burned the composite fuselage/wing fairing and other combustible materials.
When the firefighters arrived and started to spray AFFF they put out the fire almost immediately, because it was all external. The water cools the hot parts, the foam covers the fuel depriving it from O2, and the force of the AFFF jets washes out the fuel too.
It seems to me that there was very little "real" source of energy for the fire other than the jet fuel. The composites have fire retardants that make then unable to sustain fire by themselves. They can burn but with an external source of energy, because their burning takes more energy than it creates.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostYes but this was NOT engine fire for God sake!!!
Didn't you all see the videos? Or are we talking of a different case here?
You've got an engine burning kerosene in it's burner cans...
The engine blows apart severing fuel lines, and creating sparks and you get a nice spectacular fire to put in your dramatic breaking-news report.
It sure as hell IS an engine-related fire, even though it's not a true textbook definition engine fire as we know it.
I agree that the press generally sucks in using overly dramatic headlines, missing facts, and making a good effort to learn something meaningful and accurate...but conversely, "Engine fire" is probably a fair term.
...now, does the press need to interview some hell-better aeroengineer who will say, "the fire suppression system addresses fire HERE, and would not be expected to address a fire THERE (and two or three supporting statements)...sure.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Actually I have to admit I haven't watched the videos but have looked at a lot of still photos and it appears the bulk of the fire was not within the engine but between it and the fuselage.
That's not to say the fire didn't originate in the engine and spread... or it's possible the engine ejected something that punctured a fuel tank in the wing and the fire started at or near the point of impact.Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
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Originally posted by Evan View PostMost modern news...Nonsense...
By the way 1985...I'll paraphrase an article I read:
"The control tower could be heard on the CVR telling Delta 191 to go around, but for some reason, the pilots chose to ignore the order"
So, same ole stuff, 30 years later (yeah, maybe they're even BETTER at missing the boat today)
...and, another favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSBRZJqLp5o
More factual, less hype?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Originally posted by B757300 View Post*Sigh*
As usual, people had to stop and get their carry on luggage. One of these days, people are going to die because of that.
or maybe someone can make an aircraft equivalent of this.AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008
Originally posted by orangehuggythe most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet
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Originally posted by James Bond View PostI think it's time for airlines to start banning people who do this. It's the only method that will get the message across.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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abc news report video:
- Usual dose of nonsense.
- Video taken from inside the plane.
- I can tell you that I would have been guilty of NOT complying with the instructions of the crew.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View Post...- I can tell you that I would have been guilty of NOT complying with the instructions of the crew...
OR
...the ones to leave your carry-on's behind?
You know, we are guilty of wanting it both ways:
..."taking your carry on is a violation of FAR's, blah blah blah"...
..."sitting there NOT opening the emergency exit, when you might only have 90 (60? 30?, 15?) seconds before the smoke gets you...to hell with FAR's, crew instructions, and CRM while the captain calmly secures the engines and evaluates the fire versus the risk of a twisted ankle or skinned knee (or passengers getting sucked into the good engine) from an emergency evacuation"...Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Originally posted by 3WE View PostThe ones to sit tight...
atcbox, vliegtuig, atc, air, traffic, Boeing 737 (Aircraft Line), Aircraft (Invention), Landing, fire
737-300 engine startup with some flames, most probably due to preservation oil in te fuel system. This happens after a preserved engine is started for the fi...
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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