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  • #31
    I don't think the issue is that clear-cut... what if some person is diabetic and the rollbag has their insulin in it?

    But there's another more important (IMHO) issue here: the image caption says "I value my bags more than my life" but those people apparently value their bags more than *other people's* lives. That, or they may have had a bona fide (whether correct or not) belief that their life and other's lives were not in danger.

    The overall issue of what people did vs. the circumstances is very multi-dimensional except for one thing: I think it's pretty clear that they're all guilty of "failure to comply with the instructions of a flight crew" as given in the safety briefing which AFAIK is a criminal offense.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Evan View Post
      I tend to concur. I'm not going to go for my rollbag but my 'personal item' bag with my computer and vitals is coming with me if it doesn't slow me down or pose a hazard to the chutes.

      I see people with rollbags there. That is simply wrongheaded.
      Yeah, but your average passenger doesn't spend a lot of time posting on obscure aviation fora dissecting uncontained engine failures and aircraft fires and how evacuation times are really critical...

      nor does the preflight briefing stress that at 90 seconds after the initiation of a decent fire (if not sooner), some lives are in real jeopardy...

      nor do they offer those smoke hoods you used to see in sky-mall magazine...

      ...then throw in the selfish aspect that you and I are scheming to be likely to bring our computer bags and there isn't much of a "huge black line of wrongheaded ness" separating us from the roller baggers.

      Until Alex starts a multi-million dollar informational campaign, and requires passengers to sit through an annual, one hour training combined with a genuine evacuation rehearsal from a plane, folks are gonna bring the roller bags.

      Judgemental comments on avation fora won't affect that.

      Originally posted by Eric
      ...I think it's pretty clear that they're all guilty of "failure to comply with the instructions of a flight crew" as given in the safety briefing...
      See my comments about informational campaigns, increased detail in safety briefings and the need for annual, recurrent evacuation training for all passengers, including the ethics of how bringing your bag 1) risks other folks lives and 2) is a violation of FAR's (ATL-Crew to provide reference).

      (And insulin or any other med would be pretty available from medical folks responding, etc.)

      PS: Note that in this case no one died because folks brought their roller bags.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by elaw View Post
        I don't think the issue is that clear-cut... what if some person is diabetic and the rollbag has their insulin in it?

        But there's another more important (IMHO) issue here: the image caption says "I value my bags more than my life" but those people apparently value their bags more than *other people's* lives. That, or they may have had a bona fide (whether correct or not) belief that their life and other's lives were not in danger.

        The overall issue of what people did vs. the circumstances is very multi-dimensional except for one thing: I think it's pretty clear that they're all guilty of "failure to comply with the instructions of a flight crew" as given in the safety briefing which AFAIK is a criminal offense.
        _________________________________________________
        My thoughts on this thread of the conversation are pretty simple...

        Regarding the example above, if someone needs their insulin in the next 2-4 minutes, they should already have it in their hand ... or not be on the plane because their condition is so poorly controlled. If they are well enough to stand up, get all their carry on baggage, lug it to the exit (meanwhile holding up everyone behind them, an indisputable reality) and do the escape to tarmac - then they are (and will be) well enough to leave the insulin behind - this is medically speaking. And every arriving ambulance and EMT unit will have insulin stocked. The 'oh what if someone needs insulin!" is in a word - bunk.

        As to the general notion that people might have some extra time to dawdle around and get their carry on stuff ...as the plane goes up in flames...and not follow instructions to "leave your things" - well so be it. To hold everyone up, disobey instructions, and decidedly risk other's lives on a plane with very lethal potential - is each individual's personal moral decision to make.

        However if I am on a burning plane like this one day - and *anyone* like that is between me and the escape route/hatch and he/she/they are taking their time to get their stuff, make NO mistake I will -*mow them down*. Frankly, their "personal convenience" of taking time to grab their sh*t (all of which is replaceable) is FAR less important to me than my life is.

        Period.

        The fact that at least half (and by the looks of it, many more) of the pax have most or all of the carryons I find just mind boggling. Each of them is lucky I was not behind them or there is a darn good chance more than 14 would have ended up in the hospital.

        I do not often have 'strong opinions' or 'remarks' on anything - but where my life vs. someones iPad comes into play, I don't mince words and won't apologize for it.

        Comment


        • #34
          If it ever comes to the point where I have to evacuate an aircraft and some twat starts f*****g around getting their bags...

          .....then said twat will come to learn what it feels like to be a paving slab !! Trust me...it will hurt.
          Last edited by brianw999; 2015-09-09, 16:50.
          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Observer View Post
            The damage
            It wouldn't just be the aircraft that the people sitting on top of that would evacuate !!!
            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
              If it ever comes to the point where I have to evacuate an aircraft and some twat starts f*****g around getting their bags...

              .....then said twat will come to learn what it feels like to be a paving slab !! Trust me...it will hurt.
              I also pronounce you guilty of making overly-bold, very assertive comments that will never be heard by your average passenger and will do nothing to improve safety.

              Amen to personal responsibility and as a fellow old fart, I can also sit around with you, blow hot air and bash humanity...

              But I repeat my challenge:

              -It seems it's now "the standard" that you take your carry ons down the slide.
              -No one died.
              -FAR's and preflight briefings apparently don't change that.
              -Does more need to be done to educate passengers on the fine print (and there is a pretty good bit of it), that is important for that one-in-a-zillion times when details and seconds matter?


              (Don't ask me about a number of crashes where a plane attempted takeoff with the flaps up).
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                -It seems it's now "the standard" that you take your carry ons down the slide.
                Well it certainly seems to be the "standard practice" though it does not make doing so an acceptable standard, which it is not.

                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                -No one died.
                Not this time, but people were injured, quite possibly from having to rush down the slide after being held up by those taking their time to get carry-ons. We cannot know if this is the case, however we can say with almost absolute certainty (like above 99.9%) that many people got their stuff (photo evidence, indisputable) and that doing so slowed the evacuation. It had an impact fortunately not lethal. This time.

                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                -FAR's and preflight briefings apparently don't change that.
                Idiots will be idiots, regardless of FARs.

                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                -Does more need to be done to educate passengers on the fine print (and there is a pretty good bit of it), that is important for that one-in-a-zillion times when details and seconds matter?
                In this day and age where so many people are focussed on their needs and only their needs (OMG my iPAD!!) I think more 'education' on what the rules are and what they should do would have minimal or less effect on their behavior. Educatiing them will not alter their behavior.

                So perhaps the better alternative would not be educating pax who will be DBs anyway, but rather simply give them "notice" as to the effects of delaying deplaning in an emergency (as happened here) and 'hint hint' those you are holding up might take actions to assure their egress is not inhibited.

                In other words, don't waste time 'educating' pax in a futile mission to change their stupid behavior (probably an inherent, immutable characteristic) but rather simply put them on notice that others can and will do whatever is necessary to save their own lives, which very well could include forcibly removing them from the exit path, so on and so forth.

                Like I said above, iPad vs. me in burning plane - me wins every time. Someone can enjoy their iPad games in a burn unit with 3rd degree burns - I'm perfectly ok with that.

                Comment


                • #38
                  PIC was one week from retirement!!

                  Originally posted by CNN
                  The captain has been named as Chris Henkey, who was reportedly due to retire next week after more than 40 years of flying experience with British Airways.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                    If it ever comes to the point where I have to evacuate an aircraft and some twat starts f*****g around getting their bags...

                    .....then said twat will come to learn what it feels like to be a paving slab !! Trust me...it will hurt.
                    Bingo. I got 'yur flank buddy!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      I also pronounce you guilty of making overly-bold, very assertive comments that will never be heard by your average passenger and will do nothing to improve safety.
                      It most certainly WILL improve safety........Mine !

                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by obmot View Post
                        ...the better alternative would not be educating pax...
                        Slightly unfair of me to pull this out of context, BUT "not educating" is generally a bad answer...

                        ...and even "in context" I think not doing anything to educate folks is a bad answer. How about we just do away with the preflight safety briefing too?
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          "Sources are saying" the aircraft's fire suppression system did not work: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/09/us/las...ire/index.html

                          Of course that could mean it malfunctioned, or that it worked as designed and was simply overwhelmed by the fire.
                          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                          Eric Law

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by elaw View Post
                            "Sources are saying" the aircraft's fire suppression system did not work: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/09/us/las...ire/index.html

                            Of course that could mean it malfunctioned, or that it worked as designed and was simply overwhelmed by the fire.
                            ...any donkeys...wait, I mean batteries involved?
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by obmot View Post
                              ...............Not this time, but people were injured, quite possibly from having to rush down the slide after being held up by those taking their time to get carry-ons. We cannot know if this is the case, however we can say with almost absolute certainty (like above 99.9%) that many people got their stuff (photo evidence, indisputable) and that doing so slowed the evacuation. It had an impact fortunately not lethal. This time.

                              ................
                              This aircraft reportedly was half empty of passengers. If the aircraft had been full I'm sure there would be less opportunity for passengers to grab their baggage.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by elaw View Post
                                "Sources are saying" the aircraft's fire suppression system did not work: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/09/us/las...ire/index.html

                                Of course that could mean it malfunctioned, or that it worked as designed and was simply overwhelmed by the fire.
                                Could have also been damaged/destroyed when the engine came apart.

                                Of course the media will do everything they can to sensationalize it and if possible, create a "scandal" of some kind.

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