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Ethiopian Airlines’ Flight 702 Squawking “7500”

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  • #31
    I am not familiar with what the protocols are for foreign aircrews landing on regularly scheduled flights. There is probably some kind of international agreement governing the rules on this. But I don't think, just because you are part of an aircraft crew, that it gives you the green light to travel where you want or how long you want. The agreement probably stipulates that aircrews are supposed to stay within so many miles of the airport and can only stay for so many days.

    The last I heard, foreign diplomats in DC are restricted to a 50 mile radius of the city. If they want to go further out they have to get permission like any other foreigner. I suspect something similar governs the movement of air crews in foreign countries. So I don't think this co-pilot would have been 'legal' once he left Rome.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by starviego View Post
      I am not familiar with what the protocols are for foreign aircrews landing on regularly scheduled flights. There is probably some kind of international agreement governing the rules on this. But I don't think, just because you are part of an aircraft crew, that it gives you the green light to travel where you want or how long you want. The agreement probably stipulates that aircrews are supposed to stay within so many miles of the airport and can only stay for so many days.
      Quite the contrary.

      In most cases, you are entering the foreign nation as an employee on a work visa. Yes, there are stipulations to your entry, and they vary (along with enforcement - case in point flying into North Korea as opposed to flying say to - Rome), but it's generally assumed that you are here as a result of your work. The choice of accommodation is usually at the purview of the employer (read here; the Airline). They are consumers and shop like any other, comparing costs of security, comfort, and operations - and coming to a solution. Being close to the airport is an advantage, but not always a cost-effective one. It's not uncommon for crews travelling to smaller and less developed nations, for the majority of hotels are built at the larger or capital cities - and airports quite a way off from them - thus causing crews to travel some distances. However, a major caveat is that often crews - especially more senior crews - thoroughly enjoy long stops in great cities. They often spend time at nice beaches, at great locations, and get to experience the best of the cities that they go to. Their frequent hotel usage keeps them in premium groups and so they get access to some of the best hotels in the world as well. They're great tourists. The rest on these longs - even experiencing the city is beneficial to crews and airlines as well. So, while their entry and perhaps (in very few circumstances) their locations are dictated, in the vast majority of cases - they are rarely limited and often encouraged to travel.

      Originally posted by starviego View Post
      The last I heard, foreign diplomats in DC are restricted to a 50 mile radius of the city. If they want to go further out they have to get permission like any other foreigner. I suspect something similar governs the movement of air crews in foreign countries. So I don't think this co-pilot would have been 'legal' once he left Rome.
      In the case of D.C., travelling 50 miles out of the city (considering how small it is) will likely take to you a neighboring state. Rarely would a diplomat (who will be dealing on a national/federal level) need to engage on the local/state level. In a way to expedite and streamline the access of the capital to diplomats, the special accommodation has been made.

      The pilot would, as has been argued before, been allowed legal entry into the foreign nation (Italy) as per his work visa. His initial entry (to Italy) would have allowed him legal entry to visit, not permanently inhabit, Switzerland.

      What's going to be most pressing - is to understand his reason for requesting assylum. Per initial reports, the 7500 sqawk was initially reported over Sudan. Why was an airliner allowed to fly that far, over Egypt, over the Med., and into European airspace, with that code active. His reason for asylum is going to have to be extraordinary. As a pilot with ET, he is likely among a privilaged class in Ethopia. What would motivate a man to abandon that, commit such a perilious act, and do such a spectacular thing?

      Is he suffering from a mental condition? Does he know something about ET that could jeopardize their operation? Is he fleeing religious persecution (which is relitavely lesser of an issue in Ethopia than has been in other nations of recent)? Is he a homosexual fleeing persecution? Is he perhaps fleeing criminal charges at home?

      What's most important now - doed Ethopia and Switzerland have extradition agreements? Either way, he may be headed back.
      Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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      • #33
        The way I read that is that a pilot from Ethiopia would have to produce a visa, work or otherwise. I had to show a passport entering Switzerland and some other countries if I entered by air. On the ground there was no restriction say between Germany and Austria but there was another checkpoint to back into Switzerland. He may have had a work visa for Italy but probably would have been denied entry by the Swiss. Why go through all the loops and madness if he could just slip away? The Swiss border is only hours away from Rome, like a seven hour drive?

        AA1818, perhaps being of the privileged class in Ethiopia is not so grand once you have seen the rest of the world.
        Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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        • #34
          Rather than speculating, everybody who is from outside the Schengen Countries and unfamiliar with our border crossing procedures should re-read this:





          If you are an Ethiopian airline pilot legally entering the Schengen Area on a visa in Rome, you can take a train (or even a plane - as a passenger) to Switzerland without facing an immigration official!
          Last edited by Peter Kesternich; 2014-02-19, 18:46.

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          • #35
            Then he had to be a bit wacky. Assuming it wasn't his first flight, you would have thought he would have known the drill?
            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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            • #36
              We'll ignore the fact that aircrew don't enter (most) countries (including in the Schengen area) on VISAs, but under General Declarations from airlines, which have different requirements.

              However, and more to the point - he was trying to attract attention. If he simply wanted to enter Switzerland and apply for asylum, he wouldn't have been in a holding pattern for a long time, making demands. He (for whatever reason) wanted it to be a public event.

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              • #37
                I doubt that ploy for sympathy by making it a public event is going to play well with the stoic Swiss.

                Is what you are saying MCM, that under a general declaration he would have had to pass some customs point and would have been flagged with only a passport?
                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                • #38
                  No, not specifically, just pointing out that crew often don't hold visas and can have other requirements.

                  Some countries, for example, prohibit leaving the airport region/state/prefecture, while others don't allow leaving the country.

                  Was just pointing out its is not necessarily a good idea to debate the laws and provisions of people entering under VISAs when aircrew often don't hold them.

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                  • #39
                    The point is that when you move within the Schengen zone you don't pass through any immigration checkpoint. So once he made it into Rome by any means, he would have had no problem enter Switzerland. Even if he wasn't allowed to leave Rome (which I very much doubt was the case), how would he have been stopped if there is nobody there to check? He could have rented a car and be undistinguishable from the crowd.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                    • #40
                      Yes but he wouldn't have been able to try and hold the government 'hostage' by trying to insist on asylum before he landed that way!

                      There are some interesting rules regarding which country must process your asylum claim if you've previously been in another Schengen country prior to your claim for asylum, but I'm not where near knowledgable to know how it plays out if you've landed in Rome, then go to Switzerland and then apply.

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                      • #41
                        I looked this up and they are customs declaration stations not as in former times, immigration check points. However, if a customs inspector notes you are from Ethiopia (since Switzerland requires a visa), it would probably allow the customs inspector to detain you while they check your status.
                        Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                        • #42
                          Another question would be why not to request asylum in Italy.
                          Or why he was seeking for asylum at all.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                          • #43
                            He needs to be in an asylum.

                            I'm not schizophrenic and neither am I
                            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              Another question would be why not to request asylum in Italy.
                              Or why he was seeking for asylum at all.
                              My guess on that was that he either thought he had a better shot in Switzerland (versus his plea for asylum being heard in Italy), or he this whole thing just developed as matters were unfolding.

                              If he chose Switzerland due to the first reason, there is some justification as an African immigrant or asylum seeker would have, not necessarily a harder time - but a longer wait and a more likely possibility of return to Africa (Ethiopia) - as many more African migrants arrive on Italian shores than many other nations. The situation is deplorable and sad, people risking their lives and many being sacrificed to incapable ships, unable captains, and the tricky Med. - all to arrive to either Italy, or one of Italy's islands - to be put into camps awaiting their trials. The Italians are doubly damned. They are facing the sharp edge of a bad economy, social issues, and a situation that while critical is out of their control. A horrible situation and both parties are damned in either response. None of these people can wash up on Swiss shores - so maybe he thought he had a better shot there - though his timing could not be better because the Swiss are in this big struggle to limit immigration (from, of all people, their EU neighbors), and I can only assume that they are not going to be happy to see many other immigrants until their economy improves, and the average Swiss does not feel as if there jobs are being taken by immigrants. Do we have any Swiss forum members - maybe they can provide clarity on this alot more than I can.

                              I have a question (as always); are there other squawk codes to symbolize other issues/situations? It was seen that 7500 directly connotes to X, are there other codes for a cabin crew member ill, or mechanical issues, or specific other sittutational codes? The reason why I ask is because the codes were initially reported to have been displayed over Sudan. The aircraft continued over Egypt and into the Med., and then was to arrive to Italy, but did not - the Squawk being active the entire time. Was that code really the only one that he could chose, or perhaps it's categorized to give him certain clearances that other codes might not. I wonder what else he could have sqwaked...

                              Maybe he overflew Italy and entered Swiss space, unintentionally? Or, maybe he had it planned the whole time? Either way strange because ET does not fly to Switzerland.
                              Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                                AA1818, perhaps being of the privileged class in Ethiopia is not so grand once you have seen the rest of the world.
                                Yeah, I have to agree with you there. But, seriously - you make that message with a 767 and a 200+ passengers in the back, circling over Switzerland? I mean if a Pilot is having such a rough life there, how is the rest of the nation surviving?
                                Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

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