Ethiopian Airlines’ Flight 702 Squawking “7500”

[starviego]

And I am wondering what was the need to divert to Geneva. Italy was out of Ethiopia already, he could have asked for asylum there, and if he still wanted to do it in Switzerland he could have taken a train or a bus from Rome to Geneva.

I doubt he would have been let into Switzerland without an entrance visa. He could have requested asylum into Italy, but under EU rules once one country gives you asylum you can no longer request it in other countries. I think he made a conscious decision that Switzerland would simply be a much better place to rest his heels. Though why he thought he could get away with it is a mystery.

[Gabriel]

I doubt he would have been let into Switzerland without an entrance visa. He could have requested asylum into Italy, but under EU rules once one country gives you asylum you can no longer request it in other countries. I think he made a conscious decision that Switzerland would simply be a much better place to rest his heels. Though why he thought he could get away with it is a mystery.

How would that work?
He was allowed to enter the EU, obviously. And one you are in the EU you'll hardly be request any paper when moving from country to country within the EU. That's at least my experience. I've went from Milan to Paris to Rome by plane, and from Brussels to Paris and back to Brussels by train, and from Paris to Cologne by plane. The checkpoint has always been at the first point of entry to the UE and then nobody requested me any document.

[starviego]

Switzerland is not part of the EU, technically. No way could an Ethiopian show up at a border post and enter the country with just his passport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland_–_European_Union_relations

In February 2014, the Swiss voters narrowly accepted a referendum limiting the freedom of movement of EU citizens to Switzerland.

[guamainiac]

It was about 18 years ago but I didn't need a visa to enter Switzerland. A few years before that I needed one to go from London to France so I ended up just coming home.

I understand the Swiss are quite "anal" about travel and overstaying your welcome .. "Welcome to Switzerland, enjoy your stay of two weeks, spend your money and then go home" ... so said the sign in a nice hotel. My sister in law was not allowed to spend weekends at her friends house though they went to the same boarding school but her friend lived in a different city. She warned me to never leave my "papers" at the hotel even when skiing.

A few years later, I did go to France after the visa requirement was lifted.

[Gabriel]

Maybe you are right, but I am not sure.

While not part of the EU, correct, Switzerland signed several treaties with the US effectively making a large part of the EU law applicable in Switzerland. The Free movement of people, Air traffic, and Road traffic treaties are among them.

It is also correct that in February 2014, the Swiss voters narrowly accepted a referendum limiting the freedom of movement of EU citizens to Switzerland. But nothing has been implemented yet. If Switzerland implements this, the "free movement of people" treaty mentioned above would be violated and would fall, and with it, all the other agreements would fall too (7 in total) since there is an "all or none" clause bonding them. My bet is that before implementing what was voted in the referendum, deep and long negotiations between Switzerland and the EU will take place. To begin with, according to the provisions of the referendum, the government has 3 years to implement it.

However, that doesn't mean that there will not be border controls and if you are from the EU you are good to pass but if you are Ethiopian you aren't.

I remember from my few experiences mentioned above that it surprised me how "alone" were we left. For example, I arrived at Rome, got my passport singed there, and that was the only checkpoint. From there I took another plane to Paris (without leaving the airport) and not only that nobody requested any document before boarding or after deplaning, but alone there was nobody to do so if they wanted to. When I arrived to Paris I got off the plane, got my baggage, and I walked a few meters and I was on the street. I never saw an person from any agency (police, immigration, customs, you name it).

[guamainiac]

For visits or business of up to 90 days, it's a yes for Ethiopia but none for US citizens staying up to 90 days after that a visa is needed.

No clue as far as a pilot not intending to leave the controlled area of the airport but that's best answered by international pilots or someone who has a lot of free reading time.

He obviously intended to leave the airport.

Apparently EU members are excluded from the 90 day requirement for a visa for tourist or business.

[Evan]

You are joking, right?

Not at all. That incident gives precedent to the idea that a pilot can hijack a plane, fly to a country known for its human rights advocacy and be granted not only asylum but a prosperous future. To a desperate and perhaps mentally unsound Ethiopian pilot, it could be a bit encouraging. ANd Geneva is much more of that place than Italy.

So his willingness to die and kill 200 persons in the process doesn't help his legal situation, I guess.

In his defense, he landed without any conditions being met. Apparently he wasn't willing to die and kill the pax. But yes, he certainly put everyone at great risk here.

[TAP-A343]

He was allowed to enter the EU, obviously. And one you are in the EU you'll hardly be request any paper when moving from country to country within the EU. That's at least my experience. I've went from Milan to Paris to Rome by plane, and from Brussels to Paris and back to Brussels by train, and from Paris to Cologne by plane. The checkpoint has always been at the first point of entry to the UE and then nobody requested me any document.

It's not exactly the EU that has a common travel area, it's the Schengen Area where Switzerland is included despite not being a EU country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

[Gabriel]

Not at all. That incident gives precedent to the idea that a pilot can hijack a plane, fly to a country known for its human rights advocacy and be granted not only asylum but a prosperous future. To a desperate and perhaps mentally unsound Ethiopian pilot, it could be a bit encouraging. ANd Geneva is much more of that place than Italy.

Ok, I was confused because you posted that precedent immediately below this quote:

"I don't understand why he didn't wait to land in Rome as scheduled and then take the train to Switzerland and request asylum thus avoiding committing a serious offense in the process."

[Gabriel]

It's not exactly the EU that has a common travel area, it's the Schengen Area where Switzerland is included despite not being a EU country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

So, according to that, if I understand correctly, anybody that was allowed into Italy would be able to pass to Switzerland, including this Ethiopian pilot:

"The Schengen Area is the area comprising 26 European countries that have abolished passport or any other type of border control in-between their common borders, also referred to as internal borders. It functions as a single country for international travel purposes, with a common visa policy. The Area is named after the Schengen Agreement. Countries in the Schengen Area have eliminated internal border controls with the other Schengen members, and strengthened external border controls with non-Schengen states. The Schengen area encourages the free movement of goods, information, money and people."

So, again, WHY ON EARTH DIDN'T HE LAND IN ROME AS SCHEDULED AND THEN TAKE THE TRAIN TO GENEVA!!!!!!?????? (I'm assuming that the pilot would have been legally allowed into Italy, including allowed to leave the airport).

[Evan]

So, again, WHY ON EARTH DIDN'T HE LAND IN ROME AS SCHEDULED AND THEN TAKE THE TRAIN TO GENEVA!!!!!!?????? (I'm assuming that the pilot would have been legally allowed into Italy, including allowed to leave the airport).

Publicity, I suspect. It's much harder to deny asylum to a man when the world is watching. Or course, hijacking a plane doesn't help you get sympathy these days, but again, consider that precedent and his probable state of mind.

[guamainiac]

Though Ireland and Great Britain are "opt outs" residents don't have to produce a visa to enter Switzerland. They are listed as EU members but not in the Schengen Wiki.

[starviego]

So, according to that, if I understand correctly, anybody that was allowed into Italy would be able to pass to Switzerland, including this Ethiopian pilot:
Countries in the Schengen Area have eliminated internal border controls with the other Schengen members, and strengthened external border controls with non-Schengen states.

So, again, WHY ON EARTH DIDN'T HE LAND IN ROME AS SCHEDULED AND THEN TAKE THE TRAIN TO GENEVA!!!!!!?????? (I'm assuming that the pilot would have been legally allowed into Italy, including allowed to leave the airport).

Read your own quote. As Ethiopia is not part of Schengen, he would NOT have been admitted to Switzerland.

[Gabriel]

Read your own quote. As Ethiopia is not part of Schengen, he would NOT have been admitted to Switzerland.

Yes, I'm reading. And?
Do you know the difrence between an internal border (for persons moving within the Schengen area) and an external border (for persons coming from outside the Schengen area)?

Both Italy and Switzerland belong to the Schengen area.

Ethiopia citizens are required a Visa to enter any country within the Schengen area. Once legally inside that area, they are free to move within the Schengen area.

The pilot arriving into Italy will have to go through Migrations, where they will verify that he has a valid visa and meet other requirements and will stamp his passport and admit him. Then he can travel to Switzerland.
There are no internal immigration checkpoints within the Schengen area (only in the EXTERNAL borders), so Switzerland will sot stop him on entry specifically.
But Switzerland can request him the passport at any time (as they can request the ID documents to any person, even to a Swiss), but once they verify that he was legally admitted into the Schengen area by Italy, if he has not exceeded his legal stay they have nothing else to do.

That's what I understand form what I've been investigating in the Internet in the last few hours and sources have been produced in this thread, mainly this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

If you have something different, please show it.

[Evan]

Yes, I'm reading. And?
Do you know the difrence between an internal border (for persons moving within the Schengen area) and an external border (for persons coming from outside the Schengen area)?

Both Italy and Switzerland belong to the Schengen area.

Ethiopia citizens are required a Visa to enter any country within the Schengen area. Once legally inside that area, they are free to move within the Schengen area.

The pilot arriving into Italy will have to go through Migrations, where they will verify that he has a valid visa and meet other requirements and will stamp his passport and admit him. Then he can travel to Switzerland.
There are no internal immigration checkpoints within the Schengen area (only in the EXTERNAL borders), so Switzerland will sot stop him on entry specifically.
But Switzerland can request him the passport at any time (as they can request the ID documents to any person, even to a Swiss), but once they verify that he was legally admitted into the Schengen area by Italy, if he has not exceeded his legal stay they have nothing else to do.

That's what I understand form what I've been investigating in the Internet in the last few hours and sources have been produced in this thread, mainly this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

If you have something different, please show it.

Gabriel, I think you are missing the point here. You are a very logical and practical thinker. A desperate man typically is more drawn to the spectacular solution. I believe he was placing his faith in the attention this would gain him. An anonymous, unemployed Ethiopian riding into Geneva in a train and going through the system probably has a snowball's chance in hell of getting asylum, especially in a homogeneous isolationist state like Switzerland. You may not be aware of the current backlash within the more proseperous EU states against the principal of free movement. There is a disturbing rise of nationalism going on in these places.

Of course, if he was in a rational state of mind he would have been applying for a visa and employment prospects from his home country. This middle ground you are speaking of, walking off the job and putting all his faith in a hopelessly bureaucratic nightmare with no fallback isn't much of a plan either.

But now he has the media. And some will sympathize with him and even see him as a victim of larger circumstances. In the position he is in now he has a chance of attracting support from human rights advocacy groups. He is an Ethiopian asylum seeker who got noticed. That's something at least. Consider Snowden or Assange. International asylum is a convoluted game of political motivations (see 1953 Czech hijacker from Prague).