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  • #16
    Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
    This. I'm heavily paranoid about flying in close proximity to thunderstorms.
    Bullcrap (that's a friendly razz)...While there may be some pilots on this board 'afraid' of storms, they get flown through, and flown through a lot. I'm not that frequent of a flier, but know of at least two instances of flying around in storms- not on final approach but after takeoff and enroute.

    Now you've got me on a mission- as there's no shortage of youtubes showing landing into storms, and I've heard it mentioned on more than one occasion, that if the US airline industry gave storms the full, official aviodance, traffic disruptions would be a lot worse than what they are.

    If a big squall line is bearing down on ATL, DFW or ORD, sure, traffic will stop for a few minutes with the leading edge of the storm overhead, but the last few landings before the storm hits are going to be right on the edge!

    What do we think about this takeoff? Yeah, it's probably from a "not-so-anal-retentive, non-Western place but..."

    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    • #17
      Aborted landing and eventual arrival into Orlando International Airport on a United Airlines B737-900 coming from Houston. This was my first experience of an...


      Here we go (just stumbled on this, there's another one I'm thinking of)...and here in the ole USA where we're proud of ourselves.

      AND the thought of moment- who gives an eff about whether you hit the actual rain or not...with a LOT of thunderstorms, you get your rip-roaring wind gusts AHEAD of the storms and things settle down shortly after the rain kicks in...

      So- with that thought, there we are, operating right on the edge of the storm in this youtube.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • #18
        Gabriels youtube: Gray clouds, a nice rain column, reasonable surface winds and an uneventful landing.

        This youtube: Angry black clouds- clearly a rip-roaring thunderstorm, on the edge of the airport...and it get's really windy, as might be expected.

        1) Sure, BB and Lefty are not up front.

        BUT

        2) The industry isn't all that hesitant about landing into a storm.

        ...Check the surface winds, evaluate if the dude ahead of you got in, have faith in your on-board wind shear detection system, be ready to go around...indeed.

        ...Go away and hold a while? Doesn't seem quite that automatic.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn9hHhJ8NLU
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          I'd like to know what our resident airline pilots think of this landing.

          On one hand, I see the airport under the red radar return, there are lightings striking right next to the airport, and the tower reports that there the airport is under thunderstorm cell right now.

          On the other hand, the reported wind is light, there is no report of gusting wind, let alone windshears, the plane that has just landed before you reported low visibility but nothing else, and you have the runway in sight from several miles out on final. And, you can't fly just in nice weather.

          Fokker 100 landing at la Havana on a heavy thunderstorm and reduced visibility. many other aircraft landed with the same weather conditions before and after ...


          Just an observation: Watch the PAPI from short finals to touch down. At touchdown they are showing 4 reds.

          Some additional info: The airport is Havanna and the aircraft is Click Mexicana Fokker 100 XA-MRE.

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          • #20
            This is quite an old video.

            Unless you've got a bloody good reason, you shouldn't be going anywhere near that approach. Like BB I would be finding somewhere nice to go and practice my VMC flying for a bit until it passed through.

            Any pilot who gets told there is a heavy thunderstorm over the field, visibility is 800m in heavy rain, and continues the approach without a bloody good reason (such as fuel shortage) should be firmly kicked in the nether regions. This was highly dangerous and unprofessional. You'd fail a check ride for this.

            Yes, there are thunderstorms and then there are thunderstorms. It does come down to pilot experience to know what you'll accept and what you won't. It isn't always clear cut (although this example is one of the more clear cut ones I've ever seen).

            I know this was not in the USA, but in general operators in the USA are a lot more prepared to play with thunderstorms than some other parts of the world. Perhaps its more experience with them, so they are more comfortable, perhaps its a higher risk tolerance, I don't know.

            I've gone around a few times from positions similar to those at the start of the video - you can see the runway, and its clear, but there is a large thunderstorm approaching the airport and it will be there before you will be.

            As for staying away from a red return - you can't practically do that. Red returns can be caused by many different things - thunderstorms are one, but solid rain is another. We regularly fly to an airport that will routinely have red weather radar returns, but we know from experience when it is likely to be just rain. You can't avoid it. It also depends on your radar - some are better than others.

            No approaches with a thunderstorm over the field is a pretty sensible tactic!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              Don't remember the flight number, could look it up but who cares. Delta in Dallas L1011. After that one, SOP NO take-offs or landings during an active thunderstorm.
              Bold & underline are mine.

              Acutally, this is my favorite...Severe Thunderstorm warning, red stuff, active cell over the field, good honest gust front reported from the tower...



              8/2/1985
              6/1/1999
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #22
                As a non pilot allow me to make a high tech comment.


                That looked FU**ING dangerous ! As a passenger I would have been having words about that approach.
                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  When I think about that- Gabriel's landing seems kind of mundane.

                  Waiting at the gate for the lightning storm to pass. Things only got worse.


                  I was filming lightning on concourse C-10 when the tornado hit us. Went right over my friend and I .Aircraft behind window was pushed aside . We walked to a...


                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km7Q5aNk90k
                  Certainly. It looks much worse.
                  Were pilots knowingly landing into this?

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    What do we think about this takeoff?

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9IhQ...eature=related
                    I would have thought "Hell, take-off config, we are taking off with the spoilers extended" and rushed to slam the cockpit door to advise the flight crew.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuQyXL2DPzI

                      Here we go (just stumbled on this, there's another one I'm thinking of)...and here in the ole USA where we're proud of ourselves.
                      Hard to see what we really have here.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                      • #26
                        as for the original video, i can say that i have landed in worse as a passenger. also sat in the jumpseat of the challenger 300 during a landing in MGA where the wind and weather were worse.

                        like MCM noted, some pilots are accustomed to landing in crappy conditions by necessity.

                        is it the optimum thing to do? maybe not. but i guarantee it happens 100's of times everyday.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                          as for the original video, i can say that i have landed in worse as a passenger. also sat in the jumpseat of the challenger 300 during a landing in MGA where the wind and weather were worse.

                          like MCM noted, some pilots are accustomed to landing in crappy conditions by necessity.

                          is it the optimum thing to do? maybe not. but i guarantee it happens 100's of times everyday.

                          I am flying this beast all week, you think I am taking this into an active cell. You are out of your mind.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                            as for the original video, i can say that i have landed in worse as a passenger. also sat in the jumpseat of the challenger 300 during a landing in MGA where the wind and weather were worse.
                            Again, I think that rather what the weather was, the question is about what the pilots decided with the info they had.

                            You can have winds with significant changes in speed and direction (windshear, wind gradients) with clear skies, and pouring rain with no thunderstorms. But what a thunderstorm might (or might not) give you is totally different. What about a microbrust, for example?

                            In this case, the wether was not that bad in the hindsight: A good wash, little chop, good visibility, mild winds.

                            But before actually experiencing the landing, what they knew is that there was a whole line of red stuff crossing over the airport, a lot of electric activity around the field, and the tower reporting that the field was under a thinderstorm right now.

                            We all agree that doesn't mean that the actual conditions are really so bad after all, and in this case it wasn't bad at all. But is it wise to go and have a look?

                            Some pilots are accustomed to landing in crappy conditions by necessity.
                            I call this BS. Please define "necesity". And when the weather exceeds the plane's or pilot's capacity, it doesn't matter how accostumed the pilot might be.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                              I am flying this beast all week, you think I am taking this into an active cell. You are out of your mind.
                              [off topic]

                              Wow! I thought that you felw the average cargo 747.

                              How is this plane different from the normal 744 from a pilot's perspective, in terms of procedures or handling feel?

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                                [off topic]

                                Wow! I thought that you felw the average cargo 747.

                                How is this plane different from the normal 744 from a pilot's perspective, in terms of procedures or handling feel?

                                We all are qualified on all three aircraft, 744,748 and the LCF. It doesn't really fly any different other than a little bit more wind noise than the others, and it rumbles a bit. No auto-lands approved and pretty cramped upstairs if there is more than a crew of 2.

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