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  • Safety my Arse

    warning: this is a rant. if you don't like it, too bad.

    what happened to our world? what happened to aviation? and don't say 9/11 cuz that ain't it.

    airlines now (and for who knows how long?) prohibit even checking aerosol cans of ANY substance, even non-flammable stuff.

    are they seriously worried that it will explode? bullshit. women traveled with hairspray in checked and carry-on luggage for decades and i challenge everyone to name a single incident where there was danger/threat/ damage to anything other than the contents of the suitcase.

    talk about a friggin nanny society. a-holes. i'll bet if i had tried smuggling a can of hairspray on that AF flight from caracas it would have been confiscated. but 1.3 tons of blow? no problem.

  • #2
    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
    warning: this is a rant. if you don't like it, too bad.

    what happened to our world? what happened to aviation? and don't say 9/11 cuz that ain't it.

    airlines now (and for who knows how long?) prohibit even checking aerosol cans of ANY substance, even non-flammable stuff.

    are they seriously worried that it will explode? bullshit. women traveled with hairspray in checked and carry-on luggage for decades and i challenge everyone to name a single incident where there was danger/threat/ damage to anything other than the contents of the suitcase.
    My understanding (don't blindly trust in it, especially this time) is that the issue with the aerosol cans was never them exploding due to the normal pressure differential, but how they react in a fire (exploding and launching flammable fluids and gases everywhere).

    The idea behind prohibiting it in the cargo but not in the cabin was that the cargo holds represent a higher safety hazard for intense fires (because you have lots of flammable material closely packed together and no access for an in-flight firefighting effort) and that, while in the cabin there are means to fight the fire, remove flammable materials from around the fire (for example removing the hand luggage from the nearby overhead bins) and, if such a strong fire managed to happen in the cabin, then the problem was already serious enough that an aerosol exploding would not represent such an incremental problem.

    talk about a friggin nanny society. a-holes. i'll bet if i had tried smuggling a can of hairspray on that AF flight from caracas it would have been confiscated. but 1.3 tons of blow? no problem.
    Not if you had the contacts they had.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      Guess which passenger had his nail scissors confiscated yesterday?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        My understanding (don't blindly trust in it, especially this time) is that the issue with the aerosol cans was never them exploding due to the normal pressure differential, but how they react in a fire (exploding and launching flammable fluids and gases everywhere).
        For a while wasn't it Flouro-Chloro methane, an pretty inert substance...

        Yeah, that's one of those ozone killers, so I guess it could now be more like 1,2,3-4 flammable hydrocarbons.

        By the way- as to Tee Vee's rant...it has been mentioned that luggage/cargo does not get nearly as much screening as the self-loading freight.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #5
          Maybe the propellant was inert back then, but the propeled fluid was typically highly flammable. Body deodorants and antiperspirants, ambient fragrances, insecticides... Believe me, I know first hand.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • #6
            as far as explosive containers goes, ever see a can of vegetables in fire? i have, first hand. it becomes an anti-personnel grenade.

            so, the whole idea that sprays of all types are prohibited because of the possibility, not that THEY will cause the fire, but by how they react to fire, FAILS.

            i constantly travel with lots of canned goods (saves money over buying locally where they are imported and taxed) and not once have i been stripped of my cans. with ten or so cans in a suitcase, if there were a fire...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SYDCBRWOD View Post
              Guess which passenger had his nail scissors confiscated yesterday?
              where? i was under the impression that they had lifted that ban

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              • #8
                What makes me smile about all this is that if there is an airborne fire severe enough to ignite cans packed in a suitcase then brother.....

                ......you are already in deep shit already.....

                ......and if that fire is inside the cabin then brother....

                ......you are in VERY deep shit already.

                The issues with sharp objects like nail scissors, nail files etc is all bollocks. You can make a lethal weapon out of an airline supplied plastic knife. Bite the plastic blade away from the backing ridge and you have a weapon capable of penetrating eyeballs, jugular veins and carotid arteries.
                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                • #9
                  The one time I carried aerosol shaving cream in my luggage, it discharged in my shaving bag (down in the cargo), and made quite a mess. Just for sake of space I usually bring a mini-stick deodorant.

                  I think TeeVee is stuck in the hair-spray era.

                  Also wonder why anyone would want to travel with a can of green beans. Spam perhaps but never green beans.

                  Other Rant:

                  Prior to about 20 years ago we didn't have crazed dry world "zelots" running around taking hostages and blowing planes and buildings.

                  The biggest threat to security and terror was the Puerto Rican FALN who as far as I remember did mostly bombings of airport counters and offices in order to get separation from the US. Really, we should give them what they say they want every few years. "Visit the new Hati".
                  Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                  • #10
                    I learned the "discharged canister" lesson years ago. Anything that has a cap or lid gets said cap or lid taped on firmly before packing. I do not wish to smell like a whores dressing room for the duration of my holiday ever again !!

                    All hail the great God Duct Tape !!
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                      as far as explosive containers goes, ever see a can of vegetables in fire?
                      Yes, I have, next to an aerosol can, and I saw both of them explode, and they are nothing alike, believe me. (And no, I didn't intentionally start the fire in that pile of trash... or prove it )

                      Not only the explosion was much stronger in the aerosol can, with such can literally flying dozens of meters up in the sky (thanks God it went straight up and not towards me), but also there was a big fireball that accompanied the explosion of the aerosol can and no fireball in the vegetables can.

                      where? i was under the impression that they had lifted that ban
                      No, they announced that they would, but there was a big opposition from different parties and they stepped back.

                      Now that I think it again, what I say is true for the small "Mc Gyver" -type knifes (blades that are small, not fixed and not fixable), but I don't remember is the nail scissors were in the same batch.

                      Originally posted by gumainiac
                      The one time I carried aerosol shaving cream in my luggage, it discharged in my shaving bag (down in the cargo), and made quite a mess.
                      But I bet that was because something in your luggage pressed the valve. Not because a matter of pressure difference, let alone a fire.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                        where? i was under the impression that they had lifted that ban
                        From the TSA website:

                        Scissors - metal with pointed tips and blades shorter than 4 inches are allowed, but blades longer than 4 inches are prohibited

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                          From the TSA website:

                          Scissors - metal with pointed tips and blades shorter than 4 inches are allowed, but blades longer than 4 inches are prohibited
                          Interesting that the same page allows for a 7" screwdriver.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            Interesting that the same page allows for a 7" screwdriver.
                            That would include the handle though wouldn't it ? The "blade" would then effectively be less than 4 ins.
                            Either way, at 4 ins I know where I can hit a fatal blow.
                            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                            • #15
                              It takes a secondary source for a can like hair spray to ignite, it's not going to go up in flames on it's own.

                              I used to be an avid camper and back packer and over the years had built up quite a collection of (the designs for stoves go obsolete), cans of propane for cooking, well over a dozen. I did not want to put these into the common trash for fear that the compaction mechanism on the trash truck would start a fire via spark.

                              At the time we had the use of a remote cabin on about 100 acres so I decided to dispose of them at the "shooting range" with adequate safety berms. I thought the friction of a Ruger .44 would cause them to ignite just on the merits of the friction striking the can. Nope, just a puff of haze. The only way I could get one to ignite was by securing a sparkler sort of firework a foot or so away and when the "fog" from the can contacted the flame it did indeed go up with a tidy fireball.

                              There is a clause in the FAA regs that forbids the transportation of any asbestos aboard a commercial flight, even in an air sample, that "may contain asbestos", even though many of the planes systems have asbestos? Like our beans or hair spray, or, a few asbestos fibers, once you reach that point, you have a lot more on your plate to worry about.
                              Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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