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Southwest Airlines Nose Gear Collapse at LGA

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  • #16
    Definitely during landing roll out. Looks like the US press is learning from the UK tabloids.

    Unless there was something we missed before the video ran, looks like it just tucked up. Pax don't seem distressed at the beginning of the video.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BlueMax View Post
      Passenger video of landing and initial onboard reactions
      WOW!

      I think I hear more noise from the main tires going over the runway grooves than from aluminum getting ground down.....maybe it had a good coating of grease slung from the wheel bearings.

      And it looks like extremely reasonable deceleration!

      ...and no real evidence of a hard landing or nose plant on that clip...sort of like the nose gear let loose.

      ...and the reactions afterwards...It really did seem gentle enough that folks were fairly comfortable...no significant panic per se...

      LOL!
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • #18
        Well now we know the cause of the accident... the passenger who shot that video failed to turn off his electronic device.

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        • #19
          I guess someone forgot to put the pin, in the main landing gear...
          A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Philm35 View Post
            Well now we know the cause of the accident... the passenger who shot that video failed to turn off his electronic device.
            Just awesome. Hats off to you.

            All of that nonsense is pure lunacy. A wrist watch has electronics. Every aircraft should be falling out of the sky.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by xspeedy View Post
              Just awesome. Hats off to you.

              All of that nonsense is pure lunacy. A wrist watch has electronics. Every aircraft should be falling out of the sky.
              I would think that, perhaps, it might have been a joke, maybe... just saying, no?

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #22
                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                ...and no real evidence of a hard landing or nose plant on that clip...sort of like the nose gear let loose.
                Well, to me it looks like a hard landing and especially hard on the nosewheel, perhaps a 3-point one if not nose-first.

                You don't see the typical touchdown on the mains with the nose high and then the nose going smoothly down. It's "touchdown/WAM!" almost at once.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                  You don't see the typical touchdown on the mains with the nose high and then the nose going smoothly down. It's "touchdown/WAM!" almost at once.
                  That would not surprise me. I fly SWA a lot between SMF and LAX, and would say the majority of landings are a bit hard, as if there is little attempt to flare out. Overall, and I'm sure this has to do with efficiency (money), they usually seem in a hurry compared with other airlines. I really don't mind this attitude, but I could see where it might damage a plane now and then.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HalcyonDays View Post
                    Given Southwest's size and number of daily departures, it deviates the other way, ie. better than 'average'.
                    You lost me. You aren't really saying SWA has more takeoffs and landings than anybody else.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      ...however, with the tendency for planes to burn up and have minimal evacuation times...If I was by a window exit, I might just pull it and to hell with what the crew wants.

                      And yes, my actions could result in injuries from a panicked evacuation...but weigh the risks. The Delta 727 engine stall at DFW, 13 folks died before they could evacuate.

                      ...and yes, this is speculative, arm-chair, parlour talk about a crash with no deaths.
                      And the captain here is going to chew your @$$ a little bit here...

                      OK... in a situation where the fuselage or a wing is breached and/or there is obvious fire your assessment is correct. Get out and get out quickly! I'm thinking Asiana at SFO, Continental at DEN, USAir/Skywest at LAX, that sort of thing.

                      On the other hand, in this situation your actions would be exactly the WRONG thing to do, at least initially. First of all, there was no fire. There was obvious structural damage, but the airplane was intact. The cockpit crew was going through the evacuation checklist. The flight attendants were asking people to remain seated for a reason....so they could assess the exit routes and determine which exits were safe to use.

                      Now, back to you in the exit row. If you had been on the airplane and popped the exit right away, where would you have gone? Off the back of the wing? Or would you, in your desire to get away from the airplane by the shortest direction possible, have gone off the leading edge? As I said earlier, the cockpit crew was going through the evacuation checklist which includes setting the flaps to 40 (so people can slide off the back easier), switching the standby power switch to Battery (so you have a radio and PA to communicate), stowing the speed brakes, and THEN pulling and rotating the fire handles (which shuts down the engines). I know it may seem ass-backwards, but Boeing designed the checklist this way for a reason. So, in your haste, you pop the window, slide off the leading edge of the wing, and run away from the airplane straight in front of a running engine. I've heard that if you can feel the suction from the engine, it's too late...you're going to go through it and there's nothing you can do to prevent that. Now, not only is it hard on the engine to run you through it (though it could be argued that the engines on this airplane are trashed anyway), but it's hard on repeat business (yours) and it grosses the other passengers out.

                      In all seriousness, there is definitely a time to be proactive and get the hell out, and there is also a time to pause, assess the situation, and make sure you're making the correct decision. I know the cockpit crew in Asiana tried to prevent the evacuation at first, but this situation and Asiana are apples and oranges.
                      The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        I would think that, perhaps, it might have a joke, maybe... just saying, no?
                        Sometimes folks use blue font when being sarcastic (not so much here)

                        Sometimes folks trust the readers to figure it out.

                        I usually trust the reader, but as time goes on...

                        ...and the cause of this crash? I blame the takeoff.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                        • #27
                          Snyder- Thanks for adding a big dose of insight- with the only question in my mind if the pilots have any idea if there's smoke, fumes or flame in row 30-someting of couse, I hear you that there's a real clear decision process and am guessing that the FA's in the back are empowered to "do what needs to be done."

                          (oh, and just for fun...I'm not going off the leading edge, I dutifully studied the safety card before takeoff...the arrow shows to use the trailing edge and has a big red X over the engine intake )

                          Gabriel- Are you sure that "THE" touchdown is on the video??...The main thing I'll say is that I wouldn't trust it too much, but my interpretation is that we see them rolling around the moment of the nose gear setting down and then clunk...definate chance I'm wrong.
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                          • #28
                            More damaged than I first thought,
                            The nose landing gear of a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 collapsed up and into the forward fuselage during a 22 July accident on landing at LaGuardia...
                            "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              I would think that, perhaps, it might have a joke, maybe... just saying, no?
                              Just maybe

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
                                That's an amazing picture. Not sure I've seen a structural collapse of the mounting area like that before.
                                Very hard to tell, but the right side spindle looks to have rust... or rust coloured grease.
                                Doesn't look like a simple retraction or failure to lock. Either this or previous landings must have given this a pounding and maybe helped by corrosion?

                                Trying to remember a serious loss of life due to nose gear failure of some sort. Don't think in the recent past, so it looks like a very survivable accident but I guess it can be quite a shock on the spine and then there's the statistical evac injuries which is why crews order evac only if there is immediate danger.

                                Bet the pilots didn't have as much headroom as before.

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