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  • Another prop strike death

    I don't understand why people try this.


  • #2
    Originally posted by Deadstick View Post
    I don't understand why people try this.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/142474457...mp=sem_outloud
    Try what? Hand prop?

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Deadstick View Post
      ...why...
      c'mon- it's the ultimate temptation:

      PRO's
      100+ year history of a cheap, effective and efficient way to start an airplane- INCLUDING instructions in the POH on how to safely do it.

      ...And when your battery has gone dead and you are in a hurry, multiply those postive attributes about 10X...

      Con's

      A little bit dangerous.

      (And let's not forget that light plane flying is about 8X more dangerous than driving a car- so cue up the circular argument on acceptable risk vs. proper procedures, etc.)

      (In the realm of transparency, I have been involved in 3 hand-starts (done with a pilot on the brakes / throttle))

      Gabriel? Gruamaniac? Others?
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • #4
        And because some aircraft are not fitted with starters, and it would be hard to go flying if you didn't hand swing them!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          INCLUDING instructions in the POH on how to safely do it.
          Does this include something about not pushing your head into the prop?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            Does this include something about not pushing your head into the prop?
            I recall that "the proper technique" discusses body, arm and propellor position placement for "healthy balance" and to not curl fingers over the prop in case the engine kicks back.
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #7
              I was taught to "block & chock" and make sure the bird is tied down with an extra push against the tail rope to take out slack.

              I does not appear he took any measures?

              "Back in the day", when I was flying out of the just shuttered strip, "Twin Pine" in Pennington NJ, there was a fellow who got lucky. He forgot to tie it down and when the prop started spinning the Piper did quite well and took to the sky all by itself. The lucky "pilot" got out of the way of the prop with his out of fuel Cub coming down out of fuel in "The Pine Barrens" 60 miles away.

              Like spins, it was part of The Old Dick School of Training. It had to be learned along with "round Navy turn" to return to the field on engine out scenarios.
              Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                Try what? Hand prop?
                Yeah, exactly. It doesn't take that long to get a jump. I understand having to do it on an antique with no starter, but I'd opt for the jumpers everytime.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                  I was taught to "block & chock" and make sure the bird is tied down with an extra push against the ropes to take out slack.

                  I does not appear he took any measures?
                  That's for one-person hand-prop I guess.
                  I have been involved in several two-person hand-props in the Tomahawk at both ends (prop and cockpit) and while it obviously involves some additional risk that a starter, it was overal safe.

                  The procedure included a challenge-comply-check-confirm sequence before touching the prop each time, for example the prop crew would say:
                  Brakes, lean, open, off.
                  The guy in the cokpit would set and visually and manually check that the parking brakes were set (aditionaly the foor brakes were pressed to, in case the parking brake snapped-off), the mixture was fully lean/cut-off, the throttle was open and the mags were off and reply "brakes, lean, open, off"
                  Then the prop was turned a couple of times to pump some fuel, and positioned in an optimum position for hand propping.
                  Next was "brakes, rich, closed, both" and the hand-prop was attempted. THe motion included staying one step ahead of the prop, stretching your arms, putting your hands near the prop tip and swinging your arms down while simultaneously going one further step back.
                  If the engine didn't start, the "brakes, lean, off" was repeated before further touch of the prop, and the process was repeated.
                  No choks or ties were required.
                  This was a written procedure, but now I don't remember if it was in the Tomahawk POH or it in the private pilot training manual.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    The procedure included a challenge-comply-check-confirm sequence before touching the prop each time, for example the prop crew would say:
                    Brakes, lean, open, off.
                    I think what we have here is a case of "brakes, lean, head off." Is this required learning before getting a PPL?

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                    • #11
                      Good memory Gabe, the only thing you forgot was the leg kick and position of the fingers and thumbs. You mentioned one step back .. we did a kick back.

                      Why?

                      Well many, many times when you go to a cow pasture "FBO" for a mid-week flight you are the only person there.

                      Looking at that area between the hangars I doubt if there were tie downs. The minimum I would accept if alone would be chocks (you trust the brakes, not me), but at a large modern FBO even driving a car over or getting a battery cart ... tip the kid $5.
                      Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post
                        I think what we have here is a case of "brakes, lean, head off." Is this required learning before getting a PPL?
                        I don't recall any instruction for propping a plane in the PP curriculum. I don't think any flight school would want to teach it as an option because of potential legal problems. My brother has a Gypsy Moth he has to prop, and it scares the shit out of me every time he does it. No brakes, just chocks and no one in the cockpit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Deadstick View Post
                          ...No brakes...no one in the cockpit...
                          So, I'd think you'd be more opposed to single person hand propping without brakes than you would hand propping as a whole.

                          Amongst our circle of has-been PPL's, it appears there are numerous incidents of hand propping with all of us living to parlour talk about it.

                          Gosh, just think about the collective stalls, and all the planes lived to fly another day!
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No safety precaution other than a parking brake and this is exactly what happens.

                            That does not mean the it is not a safe thing to do.

                            Forgot ... pull it through a few times ... switches off.
                            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                              No safety precaution other than a parking brake and this is exactly what happens.

                              That does not mean the it is not a safe thing to do.

                              Forgot ... pull it through a few times ... switches off, but still keeping critical and favorite body parts clear, as you never know when the ground is bad and the engine might fire.
                              Fixed.
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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