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Airplane Crash over Tripoli

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Geebee View Post
    Not being an (aeronautical) engineer i obviously can be wrong. But the 'pulverization' you mention is not only a matter of altitude but also the result of mass x speed. Similar like with the crash of the Polish presidential plane, this plane was on final approach and close to the runway. Apparently the combination of the mass of the plane and it's speed (even though not high enough to avoid a stall) are sufficient enough to completely disintegrate the plane.

    Any other thoughts?
    Yes, that as far as we know today the Polish presidential plane didn't stall, clipped it's left wing with a tree, rolled inverted, crashed upside down and in a highly nose-down attitude, and what could have remained was destroyed by fire.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #62
      Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
      VNAV..appears to have all the answers, as always.....I wonder how many licenses or certificates he has.?
      I bet that his licences and certificates would surprise us.
      And I read his post as "at least 6 out of these 7 theories mst be wrong, are you sure you can go on with this?".

      I'm by far not against speculation, but talking about a stall, an in-flight explosion, fuel exhaustion, busting the MDA, loosing the tail, loosing control during the go-around, etc... when the only thing we know by now is that an airplane crashed with a high level of devastation is going quite far IMHO.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
        Overbuilt, so the Tristar that trashed into the ground in Florida when both pilots where busy with a faulty bulb wasn´t in million pieces?
        No, it´s a myth nothing more.
        Worth noting that almost 80 persons survived the crash, though.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #64
          Is there a medicine against the "trolls" or should I take two aspirins...
          A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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          • #65
            Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
            VNAV..appears to have all the answers, as always.....
            Actually, I have no answers whatsoever....which is why I'm not making a fool out of myself by randomly throwing accident causes out there just to amuse myself. However, just to play along with everyone else, here's my theory: A passenger onboard was illegally transporting poisonous snakes which escaped and bit both the Captain and F/O....from the evidence we have so far, my guess is as good as the others I've seen



            I wonder how many licenses or certificates he has.?
            More than you......
            Parlour Talker Extraordinaire

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            • #66
              The more I learn about HLLT, the more this seems like an accident waiting to happen. Waiting for the right crew under the right conditions. RWY 09 is a dual locator approach. Are the latest A330's even equipped for that? The navaids are intermittently out of service. The VOR is occasionally warped from cranes working nearby. If they weren't using internal navigation, I can see where a low visibility (or low ceiling sun impaired) at minima combined with this sorry excuse for ground-based guidance could lead to disaster. What puzzles me is the devastation, which suggests something far more violent than wings-level CFIT on final. Either a massive explosion, a very high rate of descent, or a high-bank contact with the ground.

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              • #67
                A couple of pic's I don't think were linked to before.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Vnav View Post
                  Actually, I have no answers whatsoever....which is why I'm not making a fool out of myself by randomly throwing accident causes out there just to amuse myself. However, just to play along with everyone else, here's my theory: A passenger onboard was illegally transporting poisonous snakes which escaped and bit both the Captain and F/O....from the evidence we have so far, my guess is as good as the others I've seen





                  More than you......
                  Anyone has an aspirin, please?
                  A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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                  • #69
                    G'day Evan,

                    Are the 330's equipped for a 2 NDB approach? Depends on what the company concerned ordered. Some are, and some aren't. I would personally guess that an African airline would order them with, as many of their airports would have them... but that is just guessing.

                    While NDB and VOR approaches are not ideal, they are a part of world aviation that we have to deal with. However, the pilots would have had the assistance of the IRS system (specifically when updated by GPS) to fly the approach, using the "raw data" off the NDB or VOR to verify the integrity of the navigation display. The A330 will usually fly a VOR approach in exactly the same manner as an RNAV approach.

                    You say it is a sorry excuse for ground based guidance, however you need to remember that the minima and procedures are completely cognisant of that fact. It is KNOWN that NDB approaches are not particularly accurate, which is why the terrain splays and minimum altitudes are so large/high. If you can't see the required amount at the minima, you go around. Simple.

                    With mist, sunrise etc, that all adds to the possibility of missed approaches - it shouldn't increase the chances of crashing.

                    The site certainly looks nothing like a stall - it looks very much like a high-energy impact like Evan has said.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
                      Anyone has an aspirin, please?
                      Considering VNAV is a Captain for Delta (and has been for at least the 10 years I've known him), I'd say his entire post is pretty much spot on.

                      My question: Is there some sort of RNAV approach for this runway at Tripoli, or is the (oft unreliable) VOR/DME approach I've been reading about the only option here?
                      Trump is an idiot!
                      Vote Democrats!!

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                      • #71
                        No comments on the issue of the carbon-fibre components. When the word "pulverization" appeared, I somehow thought the next comment might be "another question mark about fabric airplane bodies". So the consensus here is that the tendency to pulverize is equivalent for all materials?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          The more I learn about HLLT, the more this seems like an accident waiting to happen. Waiting for the right crew under the right conditions. RWY 09 is a dual locator approach. Are the latest A330's even equipped for that? The navaids are intermittently out of service. The VOR is occasionally warped from cranes working nearby. If they weren't using internal navigation, I can see where a low visibility (or low ceiling sun impaired) at minima combined with this sorry excuse for ground-based guidance could lead to disaster.
                          Nothing of that explains what was the airplane doing below the MDA of 620ft MSL or 358ft AGL.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
                            No comments on the issue of the carbon-fibre components. When the word "pulverization" appeared, I somehow thought the next comment might be "another question mark about fabric airplane bodies". So the consensus here is that the tendency to pulverize is equivalent for all materials?
                            This plane was mainly made of good ole Al.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ced ampo View Post
                              I do hope that NTSB joins, I just don't feel that confident with BEA, especially with the AF447 case
                              Yeah I agree. I mean, just because the BEA only had a couple of strange text messages off a maintenance feed, and only some wreckage and bodies, they should have been able for find the exact cause, and determine an exact timeline... The NTSB would just have sniffed the mid atlantic air and been able to determine that .

                              Err...ced, have you thought that maybe the total lack of witnesses, black boxes, radio or other communications and missing the vast majority of the wreckage may be just be impeding the investigation just a tad?

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Vnav View Post





                                Man, you guys are on a roll today....keep 'em coming, this is great stuff!
                                Absolutely! Personally, I blame gravity.

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