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Polish President and wife killed in Tu-154 crash

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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    That was a brilliant summarization Gabriel, and a fine and fitting epilogue to this thread. Now hopefully Brian will quietly shut it down, entomb it under several meters of concrete in a lead-lined container, where it will join the souls of the departed as a respectful monument, with only the inscription, "Here lies the destiny of presidential arrogance. May it stand forever as a lesson to the folly of leadership without respect for professional authority."

    Of course we invite Northwester to open a new thread revealing the truth of these events, but only when and if any actual, as opposed to speculative, evidence should present itself, at which time we expect him to state in clear terms what he has determined to have actually transpired here. Knowing the truth is all that concerns us.

    Or, barring that, no more will he poke the stick of conspiracy into the embers of this tragedy.

    This thread, which deals with the crash, the subsequent investigations and the findings of those investigations, has exhausted itself. We need to put a lid on it if it is to have any value for future research.
    Amen.

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    • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      Now some interesting parts of the real (or at least official) CVR:...

      ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

      ...Scream
      END
      So, in brief, because it was a critical mission with a high powered passenger, they went below minimums to try and land and due to some swiss-cheese factors, botched it and crashed?
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • Ahh the final edge of the Internets..

        Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

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        • The head of parliamentary commission investigating the crash stated that the military prosecutors have had knowledge about two explosions on board of the plane for about 2 years now but concealed that fact.
          He also stated that new findings will be released soon.

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          • Here's the organizing team of the Smolensk crash conference:

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            • Interesting:
              Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

              Comment


              • Yes, it was very interesting test-carsh the one they did with this 727.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • If this had happened in Poland, we would have "experts" on site telling us how even high quality desert sand is too soft to make wings or fuselage snap off.

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                  • Over 100 scientists participated in the conference in Warsaw. There were 18 presentations covering different aspects of the crash.
                    The overwhelming conclusion was that the fragmentation of the plane happened in the air and was caused by some kind of an explosion.
                    Prof. Binienda presented more results of his research from examining the impact site.
                    He tested 2 options, one with the plane right side up, and one in the inverted postion.
                    In both cases, if the plane hit the ground in one piece, there would have been a crater in the ground 1 to 2 meters deep (pic 2).
                    In Smolensk there was not even a slightest crater visible.

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                    • The second experiment dealt with the possible fragmentation of the fuselage had the plane hit the ground as described in the reports.
                      Again, he examined two scenarios, one right side up, one inverted. The worst result was breaking the plane into 3 pieces.
                      The ground properties were supplied by an independent lab.

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                      • Prof. Obrebski talked about his findings after examining a fragment of the plane that was smuggled out of Russia and delivered to the independent scientists.
                        He showed a piece that was burnt and blackened inside but very clean outside. The edges indicated powerful tearing forces.
                        And there were blades of grass jammed into it. The piece had to be exposed to fire first and it collected grass after it landed.
                        The chemical analysis has not been performed yet but it will be done in the near future.

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                        • Prof. Nowaczyk presented again the correct trajectory calculated based on TAWS and FMS data.
                          The top graph showes the trajectory per official reports where the TAWS 38 and FMS freeze points are ignored (blue dots above the last section of the line).
                          The correct trajectory is shown on the lower graph.
                          This time the scientists had access to the QAR data that was provided by the ATM company, the maker of the QAR.
                          What's also significant is that the QAR data showed a massive cascading failure of several plane's subsystems right at the TAWS38 event.

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                          • It has been reported today that Polish experts that spent last month in Smolensk have found traces of TNT on the wreckage.
                            The prosecutor has confirmed the information. I am attaching the pic of the news. The translation of the main part:
                            "Already first samples from the inside of the plane and the cover of the wings showed positive results.
                            The detectors indicated that on 30 seats there were traces of TNT and nitroglycerene. These materials were also found in the central part of the plane where the wings connect to the fuselage.
                            The amounts were so high that the range of one of the detectors was maxed out. Similar results were obtained at the crash site where larger parts of the plane were found.
                            The traces of explosives were also detected on parts of the plane found during this last trip to Smolensk."

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                            • Given an assumption that somewhere in the aircraft, there was an amount of explosives carried for other reasons than blowing the aircraft out of the air, how would anyone with 100% certainty testify that this explosive substance did not in fact ignite and explode as a function of the aircraft crashing into terrain?
                              Maybe the Polish authorities are reluctant to admit that they in fact were importing substances which would have been considered illegal if found, but it makes more sense to believe that the TNT or whatever is claimed to have been there was there for a known reason.
                              As understood from the CVR transcripts, the landing attempt was likley to have been made under some duress, from the "brass in the pax". The allegations that the aircraft was brought down by a bomb that blasted at exacly the same time as the aircraft struck a tree or an antenna mast and lost a wing, smells of red herring.
                              Is this the ultimate attempt to relieve everyone on board of the aircraft the responsibility for the accident?

                              The discussion regarding the accurate altitude of the aircraft at any certain point during the descent seems to be assuming that the barometric altimeter was set to the correct reference pressure, and that it was accurate to a few meters. However good that may seem, there is some likelihood that this may not have been the case. So, why based on this, attempt to say that the aircraft could not have hit the tree, which in all fact seems to have been clipped by the aircraft?

                              I realise that this discussion may stir a hornets nest. It´s too quiet here these days anyway.
                              Any factual input to this would be welcome-
                              Last edited by Passion for flying; 2012-10-30, 22:02. Reason: misspelling of quiet

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                              • Several news outlets in Russia (Interfax, Moscow Echo, Voice of Russia, Svoboda) included the information about the discovery of explosives in the wreckage, most of them without any commentary.
                                Only the weekly "Sobesednik" suggested that "terrorists" might have been involved.

                                One of the hypothesis considered by th Polish investigators is that the traces of explosives came from the unexploded WWII ordinance.

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