VLJ dead end?

[Alessandro]

So is the VLJ a dead end with Eclipse and AdamAircraft on the ropes?
Cessna, Cirrus and Embraer perhaps able to pull it off?

[Eric Diffoot]

....for Eclipse and Adam Aircrafts, probally. Eclipse still needs long term financing for the long term, which will be probally hard to find. Adam Aircraft might be heading for the same road.

Eclipse

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D94EVP8G0.htm

Adam Aircraft

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2008/04/07/daily29.html

For Cirrus, Cessna, and Embraer

Cirrus although layoff 105 workers, they been obviosly been doing well in sales of the SR-20s and SR-22s. The Cirrus "Jet" seems do be doing well as well. http://www.the-jet.com/

Cessna, well is Cessna, they been around for years, and as for the Cessna Mustang, orders seem to be coming in. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/190270-1.html

Embraer, the Phenom 100, seems to be on course.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Embraers-First-Phenom-100-Customers/story.aspx?guid=%7B2A6DBB9A-A752-4C9C-9DC1-A7C5F6A77460%7D

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/11/05/318414/embraer-confident-of-phenom-100-certification-by-end-of.html

The obviosly problem here, I believe, is that they're is just too many variants out there. How can some people willing to finance a new jet like for Eclipse and Adam Aircraft feel that things will turn out well against successful Cirrus, Cessna, and Embraer? Not to leave out also fuel costs and the financial system to be thought about as well.

[Alessandro]

....for Eclipse and Adam Aircrafts, probally. Eclipse still needs long term financing for the long term, which will be probally hard to find. Adam Aircraft might be heading for the same road.

Eclipse

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D94EVP8G0.htm

Adam Aircraft

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2008/04/07/daily29.html

For Cirrus, Cessna, and Embraer

Cirrus although layoff 105 workers, they been obviosly been doing well in sales of the SR-20s and SR-22s. The Cirrus "Jet" seems do be doing well as well. http://www.the-jet.com/

Cessna, well is Cessna, they been around for years, and as for the Cessna Mustang, orders seem to be coming in. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/190270-1.html

Embraer, the Phenom 100, seems to be on course.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Embraers-First-Phenom-100-Customers/story.aspx?guid=%7B2A6DBB9A-A752-4C9C-9DC1-A7C5F6A77460%7D

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/11/05/318414/embraer-confident-of-phenom-100-certification-by-end-of.html

The obviosly problem here, I believe, is that they're is just too many variants out there. How can some people willing to finance a new jet like for Eclipse and Adam Aircraft feel that things will turn out well against successful Cirrus, Cessna, and Embraer? Not to leave out also fuel costs and the financial system to be thought about as well.

Problem for Cirrus is that their products been involved in many fatal crashes, 38 so far.
Eclipse got both European and US certification, but to start the 400-series programme
was a big mistake financially.
Personally I think the VLJ are doomed to be a poor seller.

[AA 1818]

Now, I understand fully that recently the cost of fuel has decreased dramatically. However, the price is still high when considered against the price of fuel when the VLJ lines were first announced (i.e. when the VLJs were invisioned - people were expecting a lower price for fuel).

I think that it would only hurt the chances of aircraft sales to begin with.
- However when you add the factor that the aircraft have limited uses, and further that they are going to be used mostly by single/private users
- Further that the FAA and the DOT are strongly considering placing security restrictions on many of these private aicraft and their owners/operators,
- Even fruther that aircraft are being touted as the major offenders against the environment (in CO2 emissions - I know, I know - I have seen the statistics - we are not in any way the most vicious contributor - but still, what the press reports vilinize us anyway).
- Even more so that in this sluggish economy people are not willling to spend on most item (the least bit interested in investing in or supporting luxary items).

So all around, this is horrible timing for such a product. The only saving grace for such an aircraft would be if it were efficent, and cheap to acquire and maintain, but then again - even that may not be worth the costs to most in this economy!

[Alessandro]

Now, I understand fully that recently the cost of fuel has decreased dramatically. However, the price is still high when considered against the price of fuel when the VLJ lines were first announced (i.e. when the VLJs were invisioned - people were expecting a lower price for fuel).

I think that it would only hurt the chances of aircraft sales to begin with.
- However when you add the factor that the aircraft have limited uses, and further that they are going to be used mostly by single/private users
- Further that the FAA and the DOT are strongly considering placing security restrictions on many of these private aicraft and their owners/operators,
- Even fruther that aircraft are being touted as the major offenders against the environment (in CO2 emissions - I know, I know - I have seen the statistics - we are not in any way the most vicious contributor - but still, what the press reports vilinize us anyway).
- Even more so that in this sluggish economy people are not willling to spend on most item (the least bit interested in investing in or supporting luxary items).

So all around, this is horrible timing for such a product. The only saving grace for such an aircraft would be if it were efficent, and cheap to acquire and maintain, but then again - even that may not be worth the costs to most in this economy!

But itīs also about flying in areas where thereīs not so many other options than this?
Russians have money and willpower to continue to make aircrafts, so I wonder if theyīll
buy the Eclipse designs?

[Spad13]

So all around, this is horrible timing for such a product. The only saving grace for such an aircraft would be if it were efficent, and cheap to acquire and maintain, but then again - even that may not be worth the costs to most in this economy!

I think the timing is spot-on. Yes, there will be hickups (like with everything else new), but the VLJ is here to stay. Now, will it be the aircraft for a 500-hr owner pilot? Not likely, but not because of the economy. Rather, it's the insurance companies who will block that type of thing.

[Uncle Jay]

Dem Apples and Very Light Oranges

Watching Cessna Mustangs for sale on Trade-a-Plane and Controller.com, a year ago they were very scarce, now there are many of them available and the premium is floating downwards.

Eclipse has so many airworthiness problems, it is history and never was in the Mustang price range anyway. All the DayJet Eclipses are for sale now, $ 500K and up.. in various states of airworthiness.

The TBM 850 on the low end, and PC-12 on the high end, are much more sensible alternatives. The Cirrus Jet and Piper Jet will fail after the first engine failure crash and ensuing lawsuits. Shoulda bought a Caravan.

So why doesnt Cessna build a smaller Caravan ? Call it a Mini-Van.

[E-Diddy!]

So why doesnt Cessna build a smaller Caravan ? Call it a Mini-Van.

Sort of like the Cessna 206?

[Spad13]

The Cirrus Jet and Piper Jet will fail after the first engine failure crash and ensuing lawsuits. Shoulda bought a Caravan.

The Caravan's history, for what it's worth, hasn't been exactly spotless either.

[uy707]

Eclipse declares bankruptcy

Too bad, the concept was interesting and they wisely stuck to a proven design layout unlike some fellow pretenders

By John Croft

Eclipse Aviation today filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection but simultaneously announced an offer for the sale of its assets for a combination of cash, equity and debt to an affiliate of Etirc Aviation, its largest shareholder.

more http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ankruptcy.html

[Alessandro]

So Eclipse was sold for 28 MUS$ and some stock offer,
I wonder what P&W can do (Eclipse seem to owe them 30 MUS$), will the pull the rug on the PW610F (E500 is the only customer) to support the other manufacturers of VLJ or is the spare parts market worth enough together with the few procent of the debt they can recover? Seem like 3 odd million of the 28 MUS$ are earmarked for the E400 depositors if I understand things right?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/21/business/NA-US-Eclipse-Sale.php

[SYDCBRWOD]

So why doesnt Cessna build a smaller Caravan ? Call it a Mini-Van.

Cessna doesn't need to, Gippsland Aeronatics have already filled the gap with the GA8

http://www.gippsaero.com/ZoneID=141.htm

[Alessandro]

So Eclipse is now Chapter 7, the reconstruction didnīt work out.

[Airbus_A320]

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=7e2c67e4-ef3a-4a3e-8325-38cdb0c958ce&

Someone wants to take it over apparently.

[Alessandro]

Surprise is that Sikorsky goes in as a minority shareholder of the Eclipse, so VLJ is not dead after all....