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"Crew dragged co-pilot off jet at Shannon after mid-air scare"

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  • #16
    FedEx Flight 705

    This is one of, if not the most, notorious incidents of cockpit crew "Anger Management" issues.
    Acknowledging that it was not an active crew member, it is still indicative of the possible situations involving the Human Factor Don so correctly mentions.
    (I think, as a Jump Seat rider, he could technically be called to duty should an in-flight situation arise, making him an adjunct crew?)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Flight_705

    The NY times may require a free registration to view:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A962958260


    "As a disgruntled employee attacked the crew of a Federal Express cargo jet this week, the first officer threw the plane into a series of dangerous rolls and dives to keep the assailant off balance as crew members tried to subdue him, a newspaper reported today.
    The employee, Auburn Calloway, 42, was charged on Friday with assaulting the three-man crew of the DC-10 jumbo jet with a hammer, knife and spear gun shortly after the plane left Memphis International Airport on Thursday for a routine run to San Jose, Calif. "

    I still get shivers reading about it...

    Sparky
    100th post!!!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparky
      First time I have read about this incident. Yep it is chilling, sounded like a horror story.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
        Pilots are human too, of course some of them have psychiatric issues, unfortunately some inevitably slip through the cracks.
        Any one of us can develop psychiatric symptoms given the right circumstances.
        These symptoms can develop without a predisposing primary psychiatric disease.
        Therefore it is wrong to talk about "slipping through cracks".
        Something as simple as a pneumonia or a urinary tract disease can turn a normal person to a complete lunatic in minutes.

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        • #19
          "At no time were the safety of the passengers or crew in question,” said Fitzpatrick."








          Lies...
          Everyone made like DB Cooper.

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          • #20
            Swedish media claim he had a religious fit aka "Jerusalem syndrome".
            "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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            • #21
              Maintenance Breakdown

              Planes are meticulously checked and parts replaced according to a timed rota. Nobody cares about the pilots, tho, just put a uniform on them and they instantly become low-maintenance machines. Airlines have developed the habit of ignoring pilots' emotional needs - humans have emotional needs which if unmet can and do lead to stress and 'breakdowns'. In the UK recently, a taxi driver murdered 10 people at random after a combination of family and work relationship difficulties allowed the anger of years to boil over.
              The pilot in this case is reported as wanting to talk to god and he expressed ANXIETY about low fuel, something many pilots must have experienced.
              There seems to be a culture in aviation where it is uncool to admit to weakness and counsellors and psychiatrists are referred to as 'shrinks' in a jeering sort of way, (not that some of them don't deserve it) but there is a greater degree of shame in seeking professional help among pilots than bus-drivers or school teachers.

              The truth is that one pilot is worth a thousand jets (yep, I'm one of these liberal commie wackos who value human life) and pilots need special maintainence as well. Deny it as they might, it is a stressful job and the responsibility is heavy. For a start, pilots should be offered
              Critical Incident Debriefing on a routine basis and Airlines need to seriously look at that. I define a Critical Incident as , for example, a pilot going to work after a bad night's sleep and with ongoing relationship and/ or financial concerns, where his destination airport is known to lack some sort of technical facility which will make life more difficult for him. Moaning about cost of professional help doesn't cut it because the cost of a jet full of death is much higher than the cost of employing a few shrinks. Airlines want slapping down a bit, slapping into shape, a little kicking into an intelligent mode of behaviour rather than running on pure greed (itself a type of anxiety).

              Regular emotional check-ups for flight crew should be part of sane and sensible professional practice.

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              • #22
                Defensive Pilots, Anxious Pilots

                You mean like Hitler?


                Hello Mr ATFS_Crash,

                Much appreciated your lengthy but very interesting response to my pertinent, on-topic post. No, I don't mean Hitler or Liberal Progressives or even Strict Regressives, I mean pilots who work under stress in a very emotionally, intellectually and physically demanding job. I mean that pilots who feel difficult feelings, weariness, anxiety, confusion, just like all humans do, would greatly benefit by professional support. I think such support should be an accepted part of professional practice, thats all I mean. I am aware of your anger which is apparent in your post, full of 'YOU' accusations, and I wonder where the source of that anger is. Do you know?

                I wonder where the source of the strong feelings of the F/O taken off that flight asking God for help and expressing anxiety actually are? I wonder, had Critical Incident Debriefing help not been regarded so suspiciously by pilots, if this gentleman would have had some way of expressing and exploring his difficulties so he did not take them to work with him. That is what I meant.

                I would be interested to know, Mr ATFS_Crash, what you think the connection is between political definitions, which you so vociferously expounded upon, and exploring how pilots could accept that they have needs which could be held within a professional framework so these kinds of incidents, where pilots lose control of themselves, do not happen.

                I will not be offended by critical, blunt, insulting or angry comments. Please, shout at me if you wish. I can understand your outrage and suspicion arising at the prospect of a loss of self-control necessitating professional help for a pilot - it is a deeply worry concept for a dedicated professional as I believe you to be.

                As a frightened passenger I want my pilots to be clear, focused and alert. The kind of professional support I am describing would facilitate that healthy mental state of relaxed alertness.

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                • #23
                  I think we're going way OTT and off-topic here.

                  The fact of the matter is that, unfortunately, these things can happen. It's always possible to detect physical ailments, which is why pilots have medicals. They can do very little to detect psychiatric problems, apart from banning certain medicines which might give rise to threatening behaviour (Seroxat) or others, which might be used by people suffering from medical issues. Remember that QF pilot - Bryan Griffin, I think his name was - who has been suing (or trying to sue QF for years ... for employing him, despite his psychiatric issues).

                  The best they can do is to have procedures for dealing with crews who are behaving unusually and it seems that in this case, the other members of the crew performed admirably. Sure, a very unwelcome shock to the pax (and no doubt to the crew themselves), but the pax can see here that despite a situation which would certainly not been met by any of the crew before, they handled it in a calm and professional manner. Well done, AC.

                  The ill FO was, I think, taken to a psychiatric facility at Ennis Hospital, north of Shannon (I'm quite familiar with the area), where he would have been treated compassionately and in a caring fashion, assessed and then flown back (not deported) to Canada.

                  Incidentally, on the issue of FedEx 705, mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd strongly recommend "Hijacked - the true stories of the heroes of flight 705" by Dave Hirschman" - a thrilling read. That was incredible airmanship and performance by a brutally injured crew, in appalling circumstances.

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                  • #24
                    ATFS, do you have a pilot's licence?

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                    • #25
                      Hmm ... I was always under the impression that the "Jerusalem syndrome" manifests itself only during or immediately after a visit to that particular city ...
                      AirRabbit

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                      • #26
                        Mental Health, Disorientation and Mistakes.

                        I am not a liberal or a socialist in any sense. Many people, like Mr ATFS_Crash, accuse those making well-meant suggestions which they find objectionable, of being 'liberal' or 'fascist' or 'communist'.

                        I believe it is wrong to ignore the obvious, especially in aviation and it is this ignorance of the obvious which allows stupid mistakes and loss of self-control to happen. I would be very angry with an airline which concealed the fact that their pilots were going nuts with stress in case that information caused a loss of trust in the airline and they could, in the event of an accident, be sued or even prosecuted. I suspect they do conceal information to some extent and there is no way of knowing the degree of stress and difficulty experienced in the profession as a whole, which I find very disturbing.

                        In the case of the F/O in this discussion, the issue seems clear that his loss of self control was very dramatic and a clear mental health incident. But if you examine other incidents where stupid mistakes have been made by respected and experienced pilots, the mental health issue is not so obvious or dramatic. They seem to have 'just' made an error, albeit of large proportion. My arguement is that this 'out of character' error is a very very mild case of the more extreme incidents which obviously indicate a mental disturbance. The source of the lapse is the same upheaval and disorientation of the 'self'. It is for this reason that I advocate specialist support.

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