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Aeroflot A320 take off at -1C without deicing

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tsv View Post
    With regard to the Snow on the Wing it certainly looks disconcerting but how much time elapses between de-icing and take off? And how much Snow could collect on a wing during this time? If the Aircraft had to hold on taxiway for a few minutes surely it would be normal for Snow to accumulate?
    Not so much really! Here it looks like the aircraft hadn't been deiced at all and the wings hadn't even been checked for the presence of ice under the wet snow cap. Btw, the witness and the author of the footage proves that no deicing procedures or cleaning of the wing had been done by the time he boarded the plane and there had been no snow falling afterwards.

    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    If the manuals say "no snow before take-off", as reported, then this is a violation even if it accumulated after deicing.
    That's it!

    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    I've heard of airplanes that returned for deicing after a long ground hold and of deicing equipment being placed nearer to the hold line to deice the airplanes closer to the take-off
    Haha, it's great but not for Russia, you see) After watching such videos and hearing from airlines that it's normal, this "extra safety level" looks really funny. It's bothering, strange and wasteful for Russian airlines. If you don't mind, there're awards and bonuses for econimical pilots (confirmed after crashes by UTair, s7, Pulkovo airlines). So, the crew is also interested.

    And after all airlines keep on saying (as it had been recently said in the case of TSO's fabulous "hole in the engine") - "our pilots are not kamikaze".
    I want to believe.
    Air crashes don't just happen... www.aircrash.ucoz.net

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    • #17
      Don't Fly Aeroflot

      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      The problem, again, is not so much what is being said but who is saying it.
      Lufthansa? No problem.
      Aeroflot? I won't hear the PA because I will never get on one of their planes to begin with.
      Should not our governments issue official warnings not to fly Aeroflot? Is Aeroflot permitted to land in EU, USA?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jingogunner View Post
        Should not our governments issue official warnings not to fly Aeroflot? Is Aeroflot permitted to land in EU, USA?
        What a good idea! How else can we give them a sign to follow basic safety instructions. The owner of the video promised to write to EASA, IATA and SkyTeam.
        Air crashes don't just happen... www.aircrash.ucoz.net

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        • #19
          The Moscow Times

          Finally in mass media!
          Video of Snow-Covered Aeroflot Wing Goes Viral Amid Air Safety Fears
          An online video of an Aeroflot jet taking off from Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport with a snow-caked wing has gone viral amid passenger jitters over air safety following the deadly crash of a plane in icy conditions earlier this month.
          Air crashes don't just happen... www.aircrash.ucoz.net

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          • #20
            Continuation of the story

            Official response from Bermuda Department of Civil Aviation


            Having collected 100 petition signatures online against that glaring safety violation, the letter was sent to the chairman of the board of Aeroflot and to Federal Air Transport Agency.

            (in Russian of course)

            Special web page was created by the witness of the incident (Mr.Anopov). The first officer of the aircraft during that flight got in touch with Anopov and said that Captain Mr. Zolotaryov ignored his warning concerning the undone de-icing procedures.
            1хСлотс казино 💸 Регистрация на сайте 1хСлотс казино ✓ Актуальное зеркало 1хСлотс казино 🚀 Присоединяйтесь к игре на деньги и получите свой бонус! ⚡ Бонус на счёт при пополнении!!
            Air crashes don't just happen... www.aircrash.ucoz.net

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Jingogunner View Post
              Should not our governments issue official warnings not to fly Aeroflot? Is Aeroflot permitted to land in EU, USA?
              Quite a few years back there were two incidents where Aeroflot flights missed the Seattle-Tacoma airport. One ended up a mile west at 800 feet not once, but twice. The second was east of the airport at 300 feet. A friend of mine was an FAA inspector in the Seattle office at the time and he tried to pursue certificate action against the crew and airline but the State Department told him to back off...
              The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

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              • #22
                One thing this guy can do is writing the IOSA audit organization about this incident and stating that he believes it constitutes a safety non-compliance with the Russian regulations and the own operator's procedures, and a such it is a non-conformity to IOSA requirements, and that the response of the airline disregarding the event may show that it was not a simple operational incident but rather a failure of the safety management system.

                Explanation:

                IOSA stands for IATA Operative Safety audit, and it is a very thorough and comprehensive standard which IATA operators must comply with and demonstrate such compliance with audits regularly performed by independent audit organizations accredited by IATA. A failure to obtain that IOSA certificate means that the airline can't belong to IATA.

                I am not sure in this case, but it's typical for this kind of management systems that the accreditation body 8in this case IATA) requires the auditing organizations to have procedures to deal with external information that they become aware of and that could constitute a violation of the requirement of such management system. As such, the auditing organizations have procedures to receive, analyze, and act upon third parties complaints regarding potential non-conformities in which the audited companies might have incurred.

                If this case works as the other ones that I know, the auditing organization MUST receive the complaint, MUST analyze it to judge if it constitutes a non-conformity, if it does (as I'm sure is the case here) they MUST require corrective actions to the airline, and MUST evaluate the effectiveness of such corrective action to be able to extend or renew the IOSA certificate, something that Aeroflot needs if they want to keep the IATA membership.

                I've seen airlines taking measures after non-conformity's raised not by their national regulator (like the FAA), but by customers (many times an airline provides for example repair services to another one which must audit them to ensure they meet their own requirements), or by business groups such as alliances and IATA. In such way, while not as strong an enforcement power, these organizations have a lot of business power to make the improvements that the regulator can't or just doesn't bother.

                A problem might be finding who was the organization that gave Aeroflot its IOSA certificate. An alternative would be contacting IATA directly, but trying to aim it to the people in charge of the IOSA system and not sending them a conceptual "lament" but rather a formal non-conformity complain as stated in the beginning.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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