Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Polish President and wife killed in Tu-154 crash

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Northwester View Post
    BTW, why is the wreckage tested by Polish prosecutors for explosives NOW, 2 1/2 years after the crash?
    To give time to the conspiracy theorists to gain access to the wreckage and spray it with water contaminated with TNT, of course.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

    Comment


    • The Westdeutsche Zeitung published an article in which they maintain that the Flight Engineer from the Yak, Remigiusz Mus, an important witness whose testimony contradicted the official version of the CVR transcript, and who was found dead few days ago, had anasthetics in his blood.

      Comment


      • Huh? I thought the Russians moved the trees and/or the navigation beacon. Or that the plane botched an instrument landing where they went below minimums, which has never happened before.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

        Comment


        • Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation


          Might be relevant. might be not.
          An airliner performing a non-precision NDB approach crashes a bit short of the runway.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            http://avherald.com/h?article=42b63b20&opt=0

            Might be relevant. might be not.
            An airliner performing a non-precision NDB approach crashes a bit short of the runway.
            Clearly a conspiracy, because this sort of thing never happens (except for twice now).
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • Clearly this airplane was shot down. Experts have already found traces of TNT. Simulations about how this crash couldnt possibly have happened this way without a missile shooting the airplane down are coming in as I type.

              Comment


              • Truly another smoking gun (or was it cloud generator?)!

                Comment


                • Another plane didn't crash when not attempting an approach in conditions that were not below minimums. The plane didn't clip trees, the plane didn't crash and it wasn't completely destroyed, and everybody on board didn't die.

                  An Aero Services Ilyhushin IL-76T freighter, registration EK-76300 performing a freight flight from Pointe Noire to Brazzaville (Congo) with 6 crew, was on approach to runway 05L at about 17:30L (16:30Z) when the aircraft clipped two strong branches of a large tree about 1080 meters ahead of the threshold runway 05L at about twice the height of local houses, clipped 6 smaller trees about 1015 meters ahead of the runway threshold at about the height of the houses and left first debris behind about 985 meters ahead of the runway threshold. The main wreckage came to rest about 870 meters before the runway threshold with debris to about 750 meters before the runway threshold. All crew perished in the accident, 26 people on the ground were killed as well, 14 people on the ground were taken to hospitals with injuries.
                  Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    Another plane didn't crash when not attempting an approach in conditions that were not below minimums. The plane didn't clip trees, the plane didn't crash and it wasn't completely destroyed, and everybody on board didn't die.
                    Good grief, what a coincidence. I was at Heathrow 2 days ago and that happened something like.........oooooohh ..........every 40 seconds or so throughout the day !
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                      Good grief, what a coincidence. I was at Heathrow 2 days ago and that happened something like.........oooooohh ..........every 40 seconds or so throughout the day !
                      Yes, but in the cases you mention everybody walked off the planes and said planes were fit for further flight.

                      In the case I mention, we have to explain how the plane was shot down, how the trees were intentionally clipped to make it look like an accident, how the plane was destroyed in a number of parts that crash simulations showed impossible, and how the survivors killed.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        Another plane didn't crash when not attempting an approach in conditions that were not below minimums. The plane didn't clip trees, the plane didn't crash and it wasn't completely destroyed, and everybody on board didn't die.
                        Don't forget though-while technically illegal- it doesn't really matter if the conditions are below minimums.

                        It's if the airplane is below minimums where you might worry about tree branches.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          Another plane didn't crash when not attempting an approach in conditions that were not below minimums. The plane didn't clip trees, the plane didn't crash and it wasn't completely destroyed, and everybody on board didn't die.



                          http://avherald.com/h?article=459df3ac&opt=0
                          You forgot to include this part:
                          Congo's government officials reported that the aircraft landed on Brazzaville's runway 23R in bad weather at around 17:30L (16:30Z) but overran the end of the runway, broke through the airport perimeter fence, crossed a road, impacted multiple buildings and fell into a ravine about 1000 meters/0.54nm past the end of the runway. The brakes of the aircraft belonging to Trans Air Congo had failed, the crew attempted a go-around, the aircraft however did not climb out again. All 6 crew and 19 people on the ground were killed, the 14 injured were taken to hospitals.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Northwester View Post
                            You forgot to include this part:
                            Congo's government officials reported that the aircraft landed on Brazzaville's runway 23R in bad weather at around 17:30L (16:30Z) but overran the end of the runway, broke through the airport perimeter fence, crossed a road, impacted multiple buildings and fell into a ravine about 1000 meters/0.54nm past the end of the runway. The brakes of the aircraft belonging to Trans Air Congo had failed, the crew attempted a go-around, the aircraft however did not climb out again. All 6 crew and 19 people on the ground were killed, the 14 injured were taken to hospitals.
                            Yes, that's what the Congo's government reported, but thy were wrong. That's why the report was updated. You forgot to include this part:

                            Originally posted by Simon, Av Herald's editor
                            thanks a lot for your heads up - it took considerable time to review all evidence on file, match all photos with satellite images, measure distances and check for all details and dig up additional evidence.

                            The break through was the last photo by Louis Okamaba that although at first glance suggesting a movement in direction of runway 23 at a second look ruled out a movement from the runway to that location. Then a number of originals of photos (published and not published) helped to identify the first impact marks confirming your comment in full.

                            It didn't help that immediately after the crash local media were claiming the government were lying, the aircraft couldn't be in Brazzaville (arguing there is no ravine known in Brazzaville) and the aircraft was shot down, this created the necessity to be extra careful due to the resulting conspiracy claims.

                            The original headline was Trans Air Congo - in the meantime I was able to verify the Facebook site is indeed Trans Air Congo's and with additional evidence now mounting it became clear it wasn't Trans Air Congo indeed other than evidence on our hand as well as initial statements by Congo's government suggested. Hence I changed the story (both for Aero Service instead of Trans Air Congo as well as for the landing short of runway 05L instead of going around on runway 23R).

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                            Comment


                            • Col. Jerzy Artymiak, the chief of the Main Military Prosecutor's Office, stated today that the detectors in Smolensk showed TNT readings. He also said that further lab tests are required to confirm it.

                              Jan Bokszczanin, the representative of the manufacturer of the MO2M detector, used in Smolensk, stated: "If this equipment, and other detectors, show TNT, then the probability that there was no TNT is for me equal zero".

                              Comment


                              • Who would ever suspect TNT readings to be present on a military base? Just before I retired I watched a bunch of hacks come up with all kind of accusations regarding "an arson site" and the trace quantities found of a regulated toxin that was cleaned up 15 years prior and deemed to be "clean". They were even threatening criminal charges and there was obviously a "cover up". I had to remind these head-hunters that the type of microscopy and detection equipment they used was not even on the market 10 years ago and if examined with the technology of the time, it would have been, clean, legal and of course no crime had been committed.

                                Now as a former military base, is it possible that as appeared in some of the pictures, a staging or parking area for aircraft that were munitions laden?

                                My boss and I did not get along well but he did admit that aside from stepping on toes, he did appreciate my "institutional and historic knowledge" that often kept us from looking like fools in court.

                                Did anyone bother taking TNT or other explosive and perhaps degraded background samples from other areas of the facility? Heck I can think of two old abandoned sites close by that would show very high levels out in the seemingly harmless fields of grass and trees. Both were powder and munitions companies before they blew sky high. During another investigation I was advised to duct tape my flashlight to my hand as I conducted an investigation (nuisance call), at a particular old factory. With a grin the old engineer explained that since the place was so contaminated with explosives, the dust having even penetrated the gaps in the office floor tiles over the years, the place was so saturated that even dropping a heavy Mag-Lite may provide enough compression and spark to blow me away. The old place was a beehive of activity during WWI and II but once in awhile these old wooden buildings would go up without any obvious cause, most were abandoned and secured and even though I was wearing soft non-static boots I stepped very softly. I'm sure the old fellow loved to watch the reaction as he invited me in to have a look see with "no need to get a warrant, help yourself". I have been in the munitions bunkers of some newer places and it's hard to believe the changes made in the 1950's. I wonder how "safe" Ivan was during the Cold War era and how many "incidents" went unreported, heck over here we had a Nike silo catch fire and burn just a few yards from a public heavily traveled road. The place was radioactive for years and only cleaned 15 years ago. But it was thought to be good "PR" to raise the coastal defense missiles for public view. On July 7, 1960, one of the BOMARC missles caught fire and spread contamination. Many questions remain since this site was on a sandy coastal plain and above a major aquifer. Hard to believe this was 50 yards from a popular tourist road to the beach.

                                My point is that you can never "cherry pick" or "compartmentalize" information during so critical an investigation. Like saying that because explosive traces were found, well that proves it was an assassination.
                                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X