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  • Piece of Crap Composite Parachute Cracker Box Kills Occupants

    So here you go. One of the below was a guy, Joe Grimes was a pilot/mechanic/Instructor that I've visited with since a kid when going through Oklahoma.

    He was an above average pilot but was giving a Bi-Annual Flight review in a crap airplane.

    I hope all of you so keen on taking a ride in a composite cracker box reads the article--the fiberglass burned them to a crisp and melted on them.

    The Cirrus is racking up a pretty bad accident record. The thought is that they spun in because the airplane hit inverted from the base-final turn.

    To me this is both criminal and ironic. The Cirrus would not meet spin certification thus the FAA allowed them to subsitute the requirement with a ballisitic parachute.

    We live in an age of marketing and this defieciency was spun to be a safety enhancement---which it isn't---it is a patch they were allowed to use for a poor design.

    So however they ended up in the spin they were clearly in the dead zone of the Cirrus; an airplane incapable of recovering from a spin and to low for ballistic chute deployment.

    News Article
    February 7, 2008




    Two die in fiery plane crash
    Southwest McClain County site of accident
    Susie Williams-Allen (405) 527-2126


    Purcell, OK -- Two men lost their lives in a fiery plane crash in southwestern McClain County Saturday.
    Dead are William Paul Jackson, 53, of Lindsay, and Joe Kenneth Grimes, 52, of Maysville.
    The crash occurred in an isolated area north of Lindsay Municipal Airport, about one-quarter mile into McClain County, west of state Highway 59B around 5:30 p.m.
    For an unknown reason, the 2006 Cirrus SR22, a fixed-wing, single-engine, propeller driven aircraft, lost altitude after taking off from Lindsay Municipal Airport.
    On impact, the plane burst into flames. The trooper’s report said Grimes was ejected approximately 25 feet from the impact site.
    The National Transportation Safety Board was on the scene Sunday to investigate the crash.
    Jackson, a Lindsay veterinarian, was performing his biannual flight review, reports said. Grimes, a licensed pilot, was a flight instructor.
    The men are both well known in the Lindsay and Maysville areas. Jackson has served on the Lindsay School Board for 13 years and was currently running for reelection.
    Grimes was a farmer and rancher in the Hughes community, west of Maysville. He had a private airstrip on his property.
    Jackson’s plane, bearing tail number N824BJ, was registered September 2006 in Jackson’s name at a Lindsay address. It was certified airworthy by the Federal Aviation Administration.

  • #2
    FWIW, if Mr. Grimes was, in fact, ejected 25' from the crash site, it seems less than likely that he was "burned to death by the fiberglass".

    Comment


    • #3
      And while Cirrus's spin certification, or lack thereof, is a little questionable spinning any airplane while turning base to final WILL kill you. Cirrus does have a questionable safety record but a majority of those accidents are simply caused by poor decision making. Cirrus is the new "doctor killer"

      Comment


      • #4
        Shadey, it seems that the Cirrus design deficiencies that you are citing are in its aerodynamics and controls, not its structure, as suggested by your reference to its composites. If the Cirrus is prone to spins, which forced the manufacturer to design it with the dreaded ballistic parachute in order to get it certified, then I think the airplane's structural materials are irrelevant. The airplane crashes, you die, whether it's made from aluminum, composites, or unobtainium.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Verbal
          Shadey, it seems that the Cirrus design deficiencies that you are citing are in its aerodynamics and controls, not its structure, as suggested by your reference to its composites.
          I think Shadey feels that Cirrus is deficient in both departments.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by flyboy2548m
            I think Shadey feels that Cirrus is deficient in both departments.
            I am categorically opposed to cheap composites.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by IntheShade
              So however they ended up in the spin they were clearly in the dead zone of the Cirrus; an airplane incapable of recovering from a spin and to low for ballistic chute deployment.
              Shadey, you know that if you spin in the traffic patern you are already in the dead zone, Cirrus or not, composite or not, parachute or not.

              In fact, the altitude needed to "recover" from a 1 1/2 turn spin with the parachute in the Cirrus (less than 1000ft) is less than what it takes without the parachute in most other comparable airplanes.

              I agree with you, however, that the lack of traditional spin recovery certification sucks.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment


              • #8
                So many angles.

                The Cirrus IS the new doctor killer.

                It is also the "classic high performance" single where lower-time instrument pilots go and challenge weather, while 172's stay in the pattern on beautiful fall days and corporate pilots fly more capapble planes with more experience. (Restating this, is it the plane that's dangerous, or how it's flown???).

                Base to final stall/spin out.....a classic crash that should never happen, but nevertheless did, does and will continue to happen.

                Parachute....Apparently Cessna is ready to offer chutes- not for spin certification, but as a backup safety feature....Engine failure during the night in IFR in the mountains.........and Bring on the "airmanship" lectures from ITS.

                Composites & Sidesticks.....I do find it interesting that other aircraft CURRENTLY BEING MANUFACTURED include 172's and 182's....what does that say about new technology???

                Composites themselves- Someone will jump on me, but I do note that folks collect 1940's metallic farm tractors, while most plastic & fiberglass things that laymen are around on a day-to-day basis, seem to weaken and become more brittle....(Yes, I know, aircraft composites are "different").
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by IntheShade
                  So here you go. One of the below was a guy, Joe Grimes was a pilot/mechanic/Instructor that I've visited with since a kid when going through Oklahoma.

                  He was an above average pilot but was giving a Bi-Annual Flight review in a crap airplane.

                  I hope all of you so keen on taking a ride in a composite cracker box reads the article--the fiberglass burned them to a crisp and melted on them.

                  The Cirrus is racking up a pretty bad accident record. The thought is that they spun in because the airplane hit inverted from the base-final turn.

                  To me this is both criminal and ironic. The Cirrus would not meet spin certification thus the FAA allowed them to subsitute the requirement with a ballisitic parachute.

                  We live in an age of marketing and this defieciency was spun to be a safety enhancement---which it isn't---it is a patch they were allowed to use for a poor design.

                  So however they ended up in the spin they were clearly in the dead zone of the Cirrus; an airplane incapable of recovering from a spin and to low for ballistic chute deployment.


                  What about the:


                  So This Is How It All Ends



                  *Poof*


                  IntheShade OVER & OUT

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Peroem
                    What about the:


                    So This Is How It All Ends





                    *Poof*



                    IntheShade OVER & OUT
                    Problems with Cirrus or Airbus airplanes will be the exception to the rule.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Peroem
                      What about the:


                      So This Is How It All Ends





                      *Poof*



                      IntheShade OVER & OUT
                      Hit and run. Sorry. Better get used to it....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don´t think composites is the problem with the Cirrus company, their designs are the problem. Their first kitplanes isn´t adviced to fly either.
                        Other designs are better and safer...
                        "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Whichever is the fancy, modern, fast "next step up from the C172" aircraft of its day, will be the doctor killer of its day. No matter how well it is designed...
                          One who got away

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alessandro
                            I don´t think composites is the problem with the Cirrus company, their designs are the problem. Their first kitplanes isn´t adviced to fly either.
                            Other designs are better and safer...
                            I still don't think its a design flaw. The time I spent in the cirrus I found it to be an awesome airplane. Flies very very well. Most of the accidents are caused by people flying an airplane that is higher performance than they can handle as well as the "well I have a parachute...so I'll fly in any weather/conditions/etc" mentality. Unfortunately its hard to fix stupid/overconfidence.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gabriel
                              Problems with Cirrus or Airbus airplanes will be the exception to the rule.
                              I was pleasantly surprised with ITS' comeback and look forward to more posts.

                              Comment

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