Airplane In Trouble Attempting To Land In Miami

[James Bond]

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=81324

American Airlines Flight 862, MD-80

nose gear woes

dumping fuel on the ocean

[James Bond]

It just landed safely :clap:

[Vnav]

dumping fuel on the ocean


That's a special MD80 if it can dump fuel....

[Airbus_A320]

Yeah, CNN desparatly trying to prove that the media are idiots... they succeeded as they do time and time again in that respect.

And of course, that page you linked to puts up a pic of DL 722, when the story is about an MD-80.

[flyboy2548m]

That's a special MD80 if it can dump fuel....

There is a 737 in a neighboring thread doing the same thing.

[Kell Kong]

There is a 737 in a neighboring thread doing the same thing.

Yep... Maybe medias are trying to prepare people for their next move.. Planes are a polluting way of traveling. After the satellite shooting a few days ago, all ingredients are there to start a new fear... I can see it from there, planes are not your friends, they dump fuel on your genetically modified corn fields.. Next thing they will be questionning the fuel tax exemption for airlines, and up you go... Politically very correct...

[transitfan]

Anyone know the reg# of the MD-82? (Wondering if it was one of the ones I rode last year (N496AA FLL-LGA; N554AA LGA-FLL))

[Bok269]

Anyone know the reg# of the MD-82? (Wondering if it was one of the ones I rode last year (N496AA FLL-LGA; N554AA LGA-FLL))
N461AA

[transitfan]

Thanks. I maybe could've found out from the footage, but it seems that AA likes to make their reg #s almost invisible on the planes.

[Bok269]

Thanks. I maybe could've found out from the footage, but it seems that AA likes to make their reg #s almost invisible on the planes.

Yeah AA regs are impossible to see in all but the most direct light.

[DaveGF4G]

All civilian jetliners can dump fuel..... there's nothing "special" about it

[Dmmoore]

All civilian jetliners can dump fuel..... there's nothing "special" about it

The 737 and DC-9 series aircraft (MD-80 through B717 inclusive) do not have the ability to dump fuel. There are others, the Fokker 100 I think is another one but in general, aircraft designed for short to medium range do not need the ability to dump.

[DaveGF4G]

ALL jetliners can dump fuel... it has nothing to do with their range.... they need dump capability to reduce gross weight for emergencies right after takeoff

[el]

ALL jetliners can dump fuel... it has nothing to do with their range.... they need dump capability to reduce gross weight for emergencies right after takeoff

BS. Use google if you don't believe what professionals say.

[3WE]

ALL airliners can dump fuel, it is ALWAYS done when an airplane stalls after takeoff.

And this too: If you go to coffin corner the aircraft is stressed to it's breaking point....speed up, you break up and die, throttle back, you break up and die.....

[pilotgolfer]

ALL airliners can dump fuel, it is ALWAYS done when an airplane stalls after takeoff.
Can you explain this?

[Uncle Jay]

Pitch controls fuel burn
Power controls stalling

[MCM]

Dave ... I suggest you get your facts right before taking such a strong stance.

One of the moderators around here used to fly an aircraft that couldn't dump fuel.

Early model 767's... 737's, DC-9. 717. There are 4 off the top of my head, and I know there are more.

Why? Some "jetliners" are certified to land (in an emergency) at their max take off weight, and so they don't need to dump fuel. In fact, pretty much all jet aircraft can safely land at their MTOW, the difference is just in certification.

For example the 747-400 needs to dump over 100t of gas to get from MTOW to MLW. That takes about 40mins or so. Do you think that if you have a nasty situation after takeoff, that you sit around for 40mins? No.

Some can dump, some can't. Deal with it.

[Gabriel]

Please, everybody stop the BS.
Why? Some "jetliners" are certified to land (in an emergency) at their max take off weight, and so they don't need to dump fuel. In fact, pretty much all jet aircraft can safely land at their MTOW, the difference is just in certification.

ALL TRANSPORT CATEGORY AIRPLANES ARE CERTIFIED TO LAND AT MTOW.

If not, they would not get the type certificate. It's a requirement of 14 CFR, part 25 (a.k.a. FAR 25).

There is an extensive discussion about this subject in this thread of the 737 that dumped fuel (http://forums.jetphotos.net/showthread.php?t=42629) (of course it did not, the 737 in all of its versions is one of the planes that can't dump fuel). In short it goes like this:

The design landing ground loads MUST take into account landing at MLW at 600fpm and MTOW at 360fpm, so while the maximum allowed vertical speed at touchdown is reduced for a MTOW landing, it still covers a somehow hard landing, although not as hard as it is allowed for a MLW landing.

I've learned from people in this board that landing above MLW always requires some maintenance job, if a least to check that the landing was in fact not hard. Damaging the airplane due to a hard landing can be a lot of trouble, overweight or not; but because of the reduced allowed vertical speed at MTOW it is more probable to damage it landing at MTOW than at MLW.

I guess that's why procedures call for dump/burn fuel to be within MLW before landing, if not in a big hurry. When time is of the essence (for example a cabin fire), there should be not distraction dumping/burning fuel. Landing must be carried ASAP, and not doing so can and have cost many lives in several accidents.

However, some few data presented in that thread show some overweight landings that required just an hour of maintenance, and some hard non-overweight landings that required months of grounding.

Some planes can dump fuel, some cannot. And the DC-9 family all the way to the MD-90 and 717, what includes the one of this incident, are among those who can't. I don't know of an airworthiness requirement that directly or indirectly forces the manufacturer decision about installing a fuel jettison system on planes or not. AFAIK, it's an operational issue, not a safety one.

[Vnav]

ALL jetliners can dump fuel... it has nothing to do with their range.... they need dump capability to reduce gross weight for emergencies right after takeoff

I bet you're wrong.....but before you say anything else, I'll let ya in on a little secret. I've got over 4000 hours in MD80 aircraft and over 2000 hours in 737s. Now I admit that after all that time, I still have trouble figuring out which light switches affect which lights in the cockpit, but I'm pretty sure that I would have noticed if either of those two aircraft had a fuel dump system.

So, what do you say, do you still want to take me up on that bet?

Again, before you answer, see if you can find a copy of the Federal Aviation Regulations and take a look at FAR part 25.1001. Then give me a summarization of that section in 50 words or less and let me know if you think all commercial aircraft can/must have a dump system.

[flyboy2548m]

Please, everybody stop the BS.



Excellent idea. Are you willing to lead by example?

[FireLight]

A couple of quotes worth considering.

ALL airliners can dump fuel, it is ALWAYS done when an airplane stalls after takeoff.

As long as your okay with bending the bird in the process! ;-)

ANY airplane can dump fuel - you just crawl out on the wing with a screwdriver and punch some holes

Self explanatory - tough to do while in flight though. :p

[Gabriel]

Excellent idea. Are you willing to lead by example?
I always do. That's my policy.

Now, I'm not perfect. If you kindly directed me to my last BS and explain to me why it is BS, just like I do with other's BS, I'd be more than happy to admit my mistake and learn in the process.

[Dmmoore]

I always do. That's my policy.

Now, I'm not perfect. If you kindly directed me to my last BS and explain to me why it is BS, just like I do with other's BS, I'd be more than happy to admit my mistake and learn in the process.

While I'm sure examples can be found, if they are posted in this thread, I'll delete them.

Flyboy, if you choose to reply to Gabriel's challenge, please do so in the off topic forum and keep it civil!:smilewin: No personal attacks!:nonono:

[Dmmoore]

ALL airliners can dump fuel, it is ALWAYS done when an airplane stalls after takeoff.

And this too: If you go to coffin corner the aircraft is stressed to it's breaking point....speed up, you break up and die, throttle back, you break up and die.....

Not to pick on 3WE (but this is a fine example) because many of us are guilty of authoring a sarcastic post. It's intended to be funny but some forum members / visitors can't see the humor and take it seriously.

When making such post's, please use the appropriate emoticons or make a statement to the sarcastic nature of your post.

[Quench]

Yeah, CNN desparatly trying to prove that the media are idiots... they succeeded as they do time and time again in that respect.

And of course, that page you linked to puts up a pic of DL 722, when the story is about an MD-80.

The report said "burned off fuel as a precaution" not Dump fuel.

Very very sensible if you think your nose gear is not locked.

[flyboy2548m]

Flyboy, if you choose to reply to Gabriel's challenge, please do so in the off topic forum and keep it civil!:smilewin: No personal attacks!:nonono:

I wouldn't dream of it, Donald, as that might hurt Gabriel's feelings and he might well leave this forum thereby depriving it of a most valuable and useful contributor. I don't think I could live with myself having caused such pain.

[Gabriel]

I think these retorical questions are best asked in the O/T while being kept civil.
Concur and sorry. My mistake to carry on this OT and NVA discussion here.

Don, pease delete all this BS including this post. (while I could delete my own posts, they would still be there as quotes in Flyboy's posts).

[Dmmoore]

Concur and sorry. My mistake to carry on this OT and NVA discussion here.

Don, pease delete all this BS including this post. (while I could delete my own posts, they would still be there as quotes in Flyboy's posts).

Done per your request.