B757 - Smoke In Cockpit On Flight Over Atlantic Ocean

[MadDog]

Interesting.....

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating an incident that occurred on January 30, 2008, in which an American Airlines B757-200, en route from San Juan, Puerto Rico to Philadelphia, diverted to West Palm Beach, Florida, and made an emergency landing after the cockpit filled with smoke.

Of the 139 passengers and 7 crewmembers, several were transported to the hospital for smoke inhalation. All have since been released. No other injuries were reported.

According to reports from the crew, while at cruise altitude over the Atlantic Ocean, smoke began emanating from the window heating system connected to the first officer’s windshield. The crew donned oxygen masks and smoke goggles and diverted to Palm Beach International Airport. During the descent to land, the inner pane of the first officer’s windshield shattered. The crew continued the descent and landed without further incident.

The digital flight data recorder (DFDR) was downloaded and sent to the NTSB laboratories in Washington. The affected windshield, which remained in one piece, and the heating unit were removed from the aircraft and will undergo a detailed analysis.

While the cause of this particular incident is unknown and remains under investigation, the NTSB is aware of five events between 2004 and 2006 in which smoke, and in some cases fire, were reported to have originated from window heating systems in B-757 aircraft.

Based on these incidents, in September 2007 the NTSB issued two Safety Recommendations to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) asking the agency to require the installation of redesigned window heating systems in all Boeing 747, 757, 767, and 777 series aircraft. These Safety Recommendations have yet to be implemented by the FAA.


To see pics of the aircraft cracked windshiled, etc.... see:

http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2008/080206.html

[Gabriel]

Interesting.....

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating an incident that occurred on January 30, 2008, in which an American Airlines B757-200, en route from San Juan, Puerto Rico to Philadelphia, diverted to West Palm Beach, Florida, and made an emergency landing after the cockpit filled with smoke.

Of the 139 passengers and 7 crewmembers, several were transported to the hospital for smoke inhalation. All have since been released. No other injuries were reported.

According to reports from the crew, while at cruise altitude over the Atlantic Ocean, smoke began emanating from the window heating system connected to the first officer’s windshield. The crew donned oxygen masks and smoke goggles and diverted to Palm Beach International Airport. During the descent to land, the inner pane of the first officer’s windshield shattered. The crew continued the descent and landed without further incident.

The digital flight data recorder (DFDR) was downloaded and sent to the NTSB laboratories in Washington. The affected windshield, which remained in one piece, and the heating unit were removed from the aircraft and will undergo a detailed analysis.

While the cause of this particular incident is unknown and remains under investigation, the NTSB is aware of five events between 2004 and 2006 in which smoke, and in some cases fire, were reported to have originated from window heating systems in B-757 aircraft.

Based on these incidents, in September 2007 the NTSB issued two Safety Recommendations to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) asking the agency to require the installation of redesigned window heating systems in all Boeing 747, 757, 767, and 777 series aircraft. These Safety Recommendations have yet to be implemented by the FAA.


To see pics of the aircraft cracked windshiled, etc.... see:

http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2008/080206.html
Very interesting. And this is even more interesting:

http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2007/A07_49_50.pdf

Since 2004, the NTSB is asking Boeing and the FAA to issue service bulletines and ADs making them mandatory, and Boeing and the FAA are saying they will since then too. 4 years later we are still waiting.

[3WE]

Please connect some dots for me here:

How does the cracked windshield relate to smoke in the cockpit?


EDIT: I see Gabe has found a letter that cites issues with windshield heat....thus choice C below may apply.

Original answers:

A) They don't relate, these are independent, random events.
B) In a hurry to get on the ground, the plane was flying very fast:
B1) They plane was flying at "redline" airspeeds and evidently over-stressed the window and these windows are known to be weak.
B2) The plane was flying at "redline" airspeeds and evidently over-stressed the window, but, this STILL seems to be an awfully random second event.
B3) The plane was "exceeding" "redline" airspeeds and evidently over-stressed the window.
C) The smoke was related to a malfunction of the windshield heat, and then you have the thermal expansion thing + maybe a good fast airspeed.
D) Yes, I agree that this seems strange and I wish I knew more.

[Kell Kong]

I thought that smoking onboard was strictly forbidden !!!

[Dmmoore]

The smoke most likely emanated from the window heat controller and the associated wiring. The window shattered because it overheated. Either the window heat sensor failed closed (cold window) in which case they should have received a windshield overheat warning or the controller failed and overheated the windshield. Again, window overheat warning.

I don't know about the 757 but selecting windshield heat to "OFF" and pulling the windshield heat C/B's always solves the problem.
"IF" that's what actually happened, the flight crew needs to go back to school!:roll:

[3WE]

...The window shattered because it overheated.Aplogies for what I'm about to say:

What if the window HAD come a apart and glass shards had blown into the pilots eyes, blinding them?

Do you think someone in the back of the plane with MSFS experience could land it?

(Don't shoot! :-) )

[Gabriel]

Please connect some dots for me here:

How does the cracked windshield relate to smoke in the cockpit?

EDIT: I see Gabe has found a letter that cites issues with windshield heat
C'mon, you don't need the letter I found. Just read the original post (emphasys is mine):
According to reports from the crew, while at cruise altitude over the Atlantic Ocean, smoke began emanating from the window heating system connected to the first officer’s windshield. The crew donned oxygen masks and smoke goggles and diverted to Palm Beach International Airport. During the descent to land, the inner pane of the first officer’s windshield shattered.

[ZedFear]

Do you think someone in the back of the plane with MSFS experience could land it?

(Don't shoot! :-) )

Of course they could. Unfortunately not without distroying the aircraft and unloading the pax down the runway or in the general vicinity of the airport.

[3WE]

C'mon, you don't need the letter I found. Just read the original post (emphasys is mine):ARGH! Beginnings of Alzheimers for 3WE!

My weak excuse is that I do think it belongs in the first sentence, not the 3rd paragraph when I start skipping over major chunks of the sentences.

"Malfunction of windshield heat causes smoke in the cockpit, broken glass, diversion and precautionary landing"

[Gabriel]

The smoke most likely emanated from the window heat controller and the associated wiring. The window shattered because it overheated. Either the window heat sensor failed closed (cold window) in which case they should have received a windshield overheat warning or the controller failed and overheated the windshield. Again, window overheat warning.

I don't know about the 757 but selecting windshield heat to "OFF" and pulling the windshield heat C/B's always solves the problem.
"IF" that's what actually happened, the flight crew needs to go back to school!:roll:
Now the mentioned letter comes handy:



…January 25, 2004, American Airlines … 757-200 … smoke and fire near the windshield heat terminal…ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>

… January 21, 2004, electrical fire started near the windshield heat terminal on an Air Greenland 757-200… <O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

The windshields from both incident airplanes … teardown examination … the cause of the fires to be the cross-threading<SUP>1</SUP> of the screw that attached the power wire to the windshield heat terminal block, which resulted in an electrical arc and fire. <O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

...May 2, 2004, American Airlines … 757-200 suffered a fire near the windshield heat terminal. The window was removed and examined under Safety Board supervision, and the same cross-thread condition was determined to be the cause of the fire.<O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

…February 23, 2006, the Safety Board received an Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS)2 report from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration about smoke and fire near the windshield heat terminal of a 757 from an unknown operator. <O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

… April 23, 2006, American Airlines 757-200… smoke in the cockpit… short in the windshield heat terminal block due to a cross-threaded screw… <O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

<SUP>1</SUP>A cross-thread condition is created when the screw is installed in the terminal block such that the screw’s axis and the terminal’s axis are misaligned. Because of the torque created by the misalignment, the screw cannot be fully seated in the terminal, which results in a loose electrical connection between the wire and terminal block.




Switching window heat off or pulling the circuit braker was the first thing that crossed my mind. It looks so obvious, unless the circumstances make the lack of heat worse than the smoke (heavy icing => unable to see the runway).

Could it be that they cut electrical power to the heater but the smoke persisted, and the window shattered, because of the temperature it had already gotten?

[Kell Kong]

Aplogies for what I'm about to say:

What if the window HAD come a apart and glass shards had blown into the pilots eyes, blinding them?

Do you think someone in the back of the plane with MSFS experience could land it?

(Don't shoot! :-) )

Windshields are made of several layers of glass or PVC. That can differ with the manufacturers, but basically, the external layer being cracked (or the inner one) does not weaken the window integrity. I can't remember well the procedure in case of external crack, but I seem to recall that pilots are asked to reach a lower altitude.

Many reasons could lead to a window crack in flight. Overheat is one of them, but also window wrong installation that can induce mechanical constraints, volcanic ash encounter, etc...

So far, the only event of a blown windshield I could remember of is the BA flight where the flight attendant managed to get hold of the captain's legs, who was getting sucked off the aircraft, and pilot landed in this condition. It's quite awhile ago, and I do not even remember the details, but I am sure many of this forum members do.

About MSFS users able to land a plane, I seriously doubt. Try first to land an uneventful flight on a full motion FFS, you will see that it is nothing easy for beginners...

[Gabriel]

About MSFS users able to land a plane, I seriously doubt. Try first to land an uneventful flight on a full motion FFS, you will see that it is nothing easy for beginners...
Been there, done that in a full fight 737 simulator. Piece of cake for me at least. And in several "not uneventful" conditions. (ok, never with the the wind blowing at 150kts stright into my eyes).

[Kell Kong]

Been there, done that in a full fight 737 simulator. Piece of cake for me at least. And in several "not uneventful" conditions. (ok, never with the the wind blowing at 150kts stright into my eyes).

Gabriel, I might be wrong but I think to remember that you are a pilot already, I was referring to a full time MSFS user with no private license... But this is only my own feeling..

[Dmmoore]

Now the mentioned letter comes handy:




Switching window heat off or pulling the circuit breaker was the first thing that crossed my mind. It looks so obvious, unless the circumstances make the lack of heat worse than the smoke (heavy icing => unable to see the runway).

That would NEVER happen. Fire and smoke is much worse than loosing windshield heat on a window. Smoke is one of the worst things you can encounter. You can't see the instrument panel, much less the windshield.

Could it be that they cut electrical power to the heater but the smoke persisted, and the window shattered, because of the temperature it had already gotten?

I seriously doubt it. The airflow over the window provides a lot of cooling.

[flyboy2548m]

Gabriel, I might be wrong but I think to remember that you are a pilot already...

He certainly seems to think so. He is also one of the world's leading aerodynamicists, on par with Kelly Johnson and the like. Just ask him.

[3WE]

He certainly seems to think so. He is also one of the world's leading aerodynamicists, on par with Kelly Johnson and the like. Just ask him.Regarding his pilot status, it doesn't matter what he, you or I think. It only matters what his examiner thought.

Regarding his aerodynamic and physics knowledge, just because it isn't in the AIM, does not mean that it isn't valid.

[flyboy2548m]

Regarding his aerodynamic and physics knowledge, just because it isn't in the AIM, does not mean that it isn't valid.

Not sure what the AIM has to do with this.

[Gabriel]

Regarding his pilot status, it doesn't matter what he, you or I think. It only matters what his examiner thought.

Regarding his aerodynamic and physics knowledge, just because it isn't in the AIM, does not mean that it isn't valid.
Well, I AM a private pilot with few hours (now at idle due to economic restrictions), I AM an aeronautical engineer, and I WAS an assistant teacher in Physics and in Aerodynamics.

However, nothing of that makes me automatically good or right at something.

It's a pitty that being a low time non-IFR, day only, two seater, 112hp SEL low time PPL disqualifies me as a valid dummy airliner pilot :(

But I did what I did and I know I did it because I was there while doing it.

[flyboy2548m]

But I did what I did and I know I did it because I was there while doing it.

Gabriel,

ALL KIDDING ASIDE, this has to be one of the greatest lines I've ever read on any forum! May I please use it as my new sig?

[Gabriel]

That would NEVER happen. Fire and smoke is much worse than loosing windshield heat on a window. Smoke is one of the worst things you can encounter. You can't see the instrument panel, much less the windshield.

I seriously doubt it. The airflow over the window provides a lot of cooling.
Good points. So why on Earth they dind't switched it off or pulled the CB?

[Gabriel]

Gabriel,

ALL KIDDING ASIDE, this has to be one of the greatest lines I've ever read on any forum! May I please use it as my new sig?
I am unable to stop you.

[flyboy2548m]

Good points. So why on Earth they dind't switched it off or pulled the CB?

How do you know they didn't?

[Gabriel]

How do you know they didn't?
I don't know for sure, but Don said (and it soud reasonabe) that after cutting the energy to the heater the window would cool down due to the airflow, thus it wouldn't shatter some time after detecting & switching off as it seems to be the case here.

If they did, then I would change my question to "Why did the window shatter sometime after they switched the heat off?"

Quote: Gabriel
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Could it be that they cut electrical power to the heater but the smoke persisted, and the window shattered, because of the temperature it had already gotten? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I seriously doubt it. The airflow over the window provides a lot of cooling.

[Quench]

How do you know they didn't?

Yes, even if they did not realise that the smoke was coming from the window heater. It is standard procedure with smoke in cockpit to switch off all non essential systems isn't it ? Cabin Main A and B for sure, I would be supprised , well amazed actually if all the heater CB's off was not on the check list.

It is possible that the window was very hot and cracked while cooling.

I must say that I dont understand how a poor heater connection can cause the window to get too hot.

[flyboy2548m]

Yes, even if they did not realise that the smoke was coming from the window heater. It is standard procedure with smoke in cockpit to switch off all non essential systems isn't it ?

Not necessarily. On a transport aircraft, the standard procedure is whatever the QRH says it is. There will (usually) be two immediate action items for smoke in cockpit:

1. Crew O2 masks ------------------- Don and 100%

2. Crew Comms ------------------- Establish


Once those are done, out comes the QRH.

[Dmmoore]

Yes, even if they did not realise that the smoke was coming from the window heater. It is standard procedure with smoke in cockpit to switch off all non essential systems isn't it ? Cabin Main A and B for sure, I would be supprised , well amazed actually if all the heater CB's off was not on the check list.

It is possible that the window was very hot and cracked while cooling.

I must say that I dont understand how a poor heater connection can cause the window to get too hot.

Cracking can occur while cooling. Smoke will continue from overheated electrical components / wiring for a few minutes.

A loose connection on the thermistor in the window will cause a overheat.

[screaming_emu]

1. Crew O2 masks

I freakin hate those things. If I had to imagine what it is like to be forced to eat out an octopus, that would be it. That and nothing is better than listening to your own darth vader impression when you have the hot mic on because you're running the QRH.

[Quench]

Not necessarily. On a transport aircraft, the standard procedure is whatever the QRH says it is. There will (usually) be two immediate action items for smoke in cockpit:


I did not mean to imply that turning off non essential systems would be done without referance to the QRH. Just that it would be part of the procedure at some point.

[flyboy2548m]

I did not mean to imply that turning off non essential systems would be done without referance to the QRH. Just that it would be part of the procedure at some point.

I understood as much. Unfortunately, both formulations of that sentiment are incorrect when it comes to transport aircraft. For example, if I have smoke in the cockpit due to window overheat, the QRH doesn't say to turn off the lights.

[FireLight]

Update here:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/cockpit.windows/index.html

Since 2004, at least 10 windshields have had problems on Boeing 757s, mostly the result of wiring problems with windshield heaters that cause smoke to fill the cockpit and sometimes make those windshields crack, according to the National Transportation Safety Board. Four incidents have been on American Airlines planes, the NTSB says.

An American Airlines flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, made an emergency landing January 30 after the cockpit filled with smoke.

The inner pane of the co-pilot's window shattered as the plane came in to land in Palm Beach, Florida. One of the crewmembers was injured by glass, and six passengers were treated for smoke inhalation.

Another pilot said he had a similar experience on a 757 more than two years ago but did not want to be identified for fear of retaliation.

[MCM]

I'm with Flyboy in that how do we know that they didn't turn off the window heat? I'd very much suggest that they did. We all know the stress an aircraft window is subjected to in flight... I'm not surprised that a pane of it cracked.

And DMMoore... is the 757 clever enough to give a window overheat message? I doubt it is, in which case it may not have been immediately obvious what was generating the problem anyway.

[Dmmoore]

I'm with Flyboy in that how do we know that they didn't turn off the window heat? I'd very much suggest that they did. We all know the stress an aircraft window is subjected to in flight... I'm not surprised that a pane of it cracked.

And DMMoore... is the 757 clever enough to give a window overheat message? I doubt it is, in which case it may not have been immediately obvious what was generating the problem anyway.

Yes the 757 will give a windshield overheat warning. As are all U.S. built jet transports built since the 70's. 747 classic, DC-10, L-1011 and all transport aircraft since then.

[lee182]

Windshields are made of several layers of glass or PVC. That can differ with the manufacturers, but basically, the external layer being cracked (or the inner one) does not weaken the window integrity. I can't remember well the procedure in case of external crack, but I seem to recall that pilots are asked to reach a lower altitude.

Many reasons could lead to a window crack in flight. Overheat is one of them, but also window wrong installation that can induce mechanical constraints, volcanic ash encounter, etc...

So far, the only event of a blown windshield I could remember of is the BA flight where the flight attendant managed to get hold of the captain's legs, who was getting sucked off the aircraft, and pilot landed in this condition. It's quite awhile ago, and I do not even remember the details, but I am sure many of this forum members do.

About MSFS users able to land a plane, I seriously doubt. Try first to land an uneventful flight on a full motion FFS, you will see that it is nothing easy for beginners...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390

[MCM]

DMMoore... and what form does this windshield overheat warning on the B747-400 take? (And the 757 for that matter)

[HAWK21M]

The WHCU is in the MEC.Did the smoke emate from there 7 move via the AC cooling airflow.
regds
MEL