Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Could we see any more US-DEL flights

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Could we see any more US-DEL flights

    Hi,

    In the last few years international traffic into Indira Gandhi International Airport Delhi has grown tremendously in the past few years. Currently CO runs a daily flight to Delhi from EWR and AA runs a daily flight to Delhi from ORD. I was just wondering if any other airlines might start flights from the US to India.

    Here are the airlines that might do it:

    Air India: Currently runs daily JFK-BOM flight, is looking strongly into JFK-DEL flight. We might also LAX-DEL or ORD-DEL

    United Airlines: Has looked into the posssiblity of doing a daily IAD-DEL or ORD-DEL on a Boeing 747-400. Could also do a flight from LHR-DEL.

    Jet Airways: the Boeing 777-300ERs have enough range to do it and the airline has expressed intrest.

    Delta: might once again start flights to Delhi if demand picks up and the new 777-200LR would be able to perform the ATL-DEL route quite efficiently.

    Air Canada: Used to have a daily TOR-DEL flight on an Airbus A340-300, but service was suspended. Might again do a direct flight with the new Boeing 777s or may start a one stop flight to Delhi.

    What are your guys' thoughts,

    Rohan

  • #2
    Ok, well let's consider the airlines that are not flying to DEL from the US:

    U.S. Airways - They really have no network in that part of the world and really seem to be having their own issues. They seem the least probable to start services to that part of the world.

    Unites Airlines - They had their shot at India in the past and were unsucessfull, but that was at very different time in Indian devleopement, and a return to India could be a boon for them. The real question will be - where do they start? I mean, out of ORD they will run against AI and AA, and out of a west coast launch point they will run against AI (and 9W and Kingfisher in the near future). So they only point left is out of Washington, and that is a very long route. If they want to get into India, now is the time to do it - because the olonger they wait, the slimmer their chances grow of turning a respectable profit.

    Northwest - They are perhaps better suited in that they have a network in the Pacific that can be expanded a bit. Their pacific network is as impressive as UA's (if not more so) but this could be a cash-cow route for them if they did it well. Unlike UA, they could tap into an unserved market in that the Midwest (escpecially MSP) does not have Indian service.

    Delta - the most probable. They probably are only awaiting planes as you have said. I think that DL would be the one to max. out on their services to India b/c it is a relitavely new market that can be lucrative if entered into soon.

    In India - the majors such as AirIndia are still fighting with their toothing issues (from the merger and the new corporate image and the LCC threat) and then the new kids are being forced to take things slowly (most notbaly JetAirways and Kingfisher). This is the time for the American carriers to enter the market and get their customer bases established, otherwise, the Indian carriers will capture the market. If they needed to work quikly, now is the time.
    Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

    Comment


    • #3
      So far I think UA and DL are most likely to start flights to Delhi. However, UA's insistance on using a Boeing 747-400 on the route could hurt them, especially when UA's competitors are using Boeing 777. IAD-Delhi could be operated by a Boeing 777-200ER, but UA wants to use a Boeing 747 to India, which might hurt them becuase the Boeing 747-400 economy class has no PTVs and the business class is below that of other airlines.

      In addition, if UA finds this IAD-DEL route unsuitable, they might try to do a flight from LHR to Delhi. Personally, I find this the more likely scenario.

      In my opinion DL wil definately start a flight to Delhi once the newer Boeing 77-200LR.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't know if UA would have the Autority to operate through LHR. Under Open Skies maybe.

        Comment


        • #5
          Currently the AA flight on a Boeing 777-200ER runs about 7485 miles, the max range of a Boeing 777-200ER is 7800 miles. According to greatcirclemapper.com a UA flight from IAD-DEL would be about 7500 miles, which means the airline would have to use a Boeing 777-200ER because the Boeing 747-400 only has a range of 7300 miles. UA might do the IAD-DEL flight, but I still think that UA will try for a LHR-DEL flight because the airline has done the route before and was pretty successful. The flight number used to be UA1 and UA2 and the route was flown with the Boeing 747-400 in summer and the Boeing 767-300 in winter. I remember that most of the time these flights were pretty full. Rember UA left Delhi just after 9/11, when the airline was in complete disarray.

          Rohan

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bok269
            I don't know if UA would have the Autority to operate through LHR. Under Open Skies maybe.

            So I have to ask - what are the stipulations for US Carriers under Open Skies? Can UA fly IAD-LHR-DEL under open skies (and sell tickets on every segment)?
            Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi,

              I bet you that UA probably could operate a IAD-LHR-DEL flight and would probably be able to sell enough seats to do so. Remember India is a lot better than it was 5 or 10 years ago and the demand for flights to India has grown substantially. Also, UA used to operate the IAD-LHR-DEL route and if it gets approved under open skies I think it' s the one they want to keep.

              As for IAD-DEL I am beginning to doubt because UA's 777s are powered by the PW4090 engines and produce 90,000 lbs of thrust vs. the RR Trent 895 and the GE90-95B both, which produce 95,000 lbs. of thrust, so the range capibilities of UA's 777s are only about 7650-7700 miles vs. CO's and AA's 777s, which have a range capibility of <7800 miles.

              Rohan

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bok269
                I don't know if UA would have the Autority to operate through LHR. Under Open Skies maybe.
                I'm not sure of the bilateral between the US and India, but the new US-EU bilateral allows airlines to operate 5th freedom routes beyond their countries, like the aforementioned possible IAD-LHR-DEL routing, providing the bilateral with the final destination country allows for the flights.
                That said, I doubt UA would even consider India flights via LHR, because it would have too many disadvantages:
                - LHR-DEL sees lots of competition
                - LHR is a clusterfvck
                - Everyone and their grandma is starting either nonstop US-India flights (AA, DL, CO, AI), or operating via a delay-free hub airport in the EU (Jet at BRU, and AI supposedly at MUC);
                UA would simply be faced with too many disadvantages

                As for US carriers to DEL, I would expect the following most definitely:
                -DL from ATL once they have enough 77Ls, and also JFK providing the 77Ls also allow to free up 2 772s.
                -CO from IAH once their first 789s come online (whenever that is)

                Comment


                • #9
                  We have 3 Indian Airlines(Kingfisher, Air India, and Jet Airways) comming to SFO, and a 4th start-up proposed. None are starting with DEL service, but who knows what could happen in the future.

                  I would think UA flying a route to DEL via LHR is highly unlikely. As was stated, there is tons of compition on the route already. If UA can get into DEL, it would make more sense to open an IAD-DEL route. That way people in the US wouldn't have to go connect in EU and would have an option for a direct flight, or a likely short hop over to IAD from their airport.
                  sigpic
                  http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=170

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IAD-DEL could be a very likely possibility, but UA might still do a LHR-DEL flight because the demand out of LHR for delhi flight is much higher out of LHR than at IAD. Yes, UA faces more competition, but most of the planes going to Delhi are almost always 90% full, so UA might be able to make a dent in the market. As for IAD-DEL this is a very long route at about 7500 miles and UA might use a Boeing 777 to do it, however, UA always has shown a lot of reluctance at giving a 777 to India flights because of the fuel consumed and passenger load, they used to be operated by Boeing 747-400, which could carry more passengers. Since this flight is in the same range as LAX-SYD and SFO-SYD we might see a Boeing 747.

                    I know this a little off-topic, but with the new Boeing 77-200LRs Air Canada is getting we might also see Toronto-Delhi flight.

                    Everyone and their grandma is starting either nonstop US-India flights (AA, DL, CO, AI), or operating via a delay-free hub airport in the EU (Jet at BRU, and AI supposedly at MUC);
                    UA would simply be faced with too many disadvantages
                    Could we maybe see AMS-DEL

                    Rohan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rohank4284
                      IAD-DEL could be a very likely possibility, but UA might still do a LHR-DEL flight because the demand out of LHR for delhi flight is much higher out of LHR than at IAD. Yes, UA faces more competition, but most of the planes going to Delhi are almost always 90% full, so UA might be able to make a dent in the market. As for IAD-DEL this is a very long route at about 7500 miles and UA might use a Boeing 777 to do it, however, UA always has shown a lot of reluctance at giving a 777 to India flights because of the fuel consumed and passenger load, they used to be operated by Boeing 747-400, which could carry more passengers. Since this flight is in the same range as LAX-SYD and SFO-SYD we might see a Boeing 747.

                      I know this a little off-topic, but with the new Boeing 77-200LRs Air Canada is getting we might also see Toronto-Delhi flight.



                      Could we maybe see AMS-DEL

                      Rohan
                      Highly unlikely. THat's NW/KL territory. I highly doubt you are going to see new service on a US carrier with a stopover in Europe.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        NWA has a AMS-BOM flight #33/34
                        John Poshepny

                        If the Wright brother were alive today Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs.— Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines, 'USA Today,' 1994

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi,

                          Ok I got a little off track, but I still think that UA's presence in LHR could lead to a flight to Delhi. FRA-DEL is very unlikely because of LH's dominance.

                          Rohan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rohank4284
                            Hi,

                            Ok I got a little off track, but I still think that UA's presence in LHR could lead to a flight to Delhi. FRA-DEL is very unlikely because of LH's dominance.

                            Rohan
                            A lot of airlines do. Doen't mean that they would use it as a connecting point to DEL. It's such a difficult airport that using it as a connecting point without significant operations there would be difficult.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have to say, that I agree that a stopover point in Europe would be disadvantageous in that:
                              Most passengers prefer to fly non-stop:
                              - No Transit Visas.
                              - No Need to get off of the aircraft and recheck in (when the time applies).
                              - No need to waste time at another airport when there is no need to.
                              - And so in that respect, there is a real aspect of monopoly in that they have no competition, thus allowing them to operate efficently and being able to maximize profit.

                              The amenities on other carriers are too great:
                              - No offence, but UA's service and amenities are not that great when compared to other International carriers. Consider if they decided to do the IAD-FRA-DEL, passengers could connect onto LH and still earn miles while enjoying better benefits (which they probably do now anyway)...
                              - Because of so much competition many other carriers are providing cheeper fares with better amenities than their American counterparts.


                              With all that said, someone raised a very interesting point. The 747-400 was inappropriate for service to India years ago, but remember that things have changed greatly in India. As of such, with the great increase of demand for the commodity, then maybe the 747 would be appropriate now. A 747 (if it is possible to do the route) would provide an advantage in that it would allow better cargo volumes and more capacity.

                              And as it was raised - that the route might connect through AMS - remember that the KLM/NW relationship is unique. They are very well connected and as of such, work so very well together. If UA were to enter into any Eurpoean city (even one where there is a high StarAlliance presence) they will still not be able to have the relatoinship that KLM/NW has. Much less so, if they attempt to go to a pre-dominantly SkyTeam alliance city. They do not have the infrastructure or connections to support the route.
                              Whatever is necessary, is never unwise.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X