Type Ratings questions.

[JordanD]

I'm kind of wondering about type ratingsand how you decide which ones to get, but also, why are they so damn expensive? I saw one for a Citation type rating that was $6500 and that included 2 hours of sim time and 2 hours of actual flying time. Do you usually get a type rating after you get a job with an airline or company? It'd suck to spend like 7k on a Lear type rating and then not be able to find any companies hiring pilots for a Lear.

[MCM]

They're expensive because of the types of aircraft involved! Its expensive to hire something like a Lear or Citation! Add to that the costs of instructors, etc... all adds up.

You can either take the risk, get the rating and then apply for jobs, or you can try and find a position based on the fact that you will get the rating.

Some companies will pay for it, or preferably just train you themselves, others wont.

Most people start small, and work their way up. If you're working for a company with say king air's and citations, maybe you can start on the King Air and then eventually they'll offer you a position on a citation.

Some airlines are now requiring 737 endorsements... so you've got GA instructors etc forking out the tens of thousands required for a 737 licence, then looking for the jobs out there. Its a tough world these days.

Most companies wouldn't hire a 200hr pilot to fly a citation even if he had the rating... so its something you'd be looking at a bit down the track after you've got some experience and are working for a living. Thats my opinion anyway.

[Bok269]

Will most regionals type cert you themselves?

[JordanD]

They're expensive because of the types of aircraft involved! Its expensive to hire something like a Lear or Citation! Add to that the costs of instructors, etc... all adds up.

You can either take the risk, get the rating and then apply for jobs, or you can try and find a position based on the fact that you will get the rating.

Some companies will pay for it, or preferably just train you themselves, others wont.

Most people start small, and work their way up. If you're working for a company with say king air's and citations, maybe you can start on the King Air and then eventually they'll offer you a position on a citation.

Some airlines are now requiring 737 endorsements... so you've got GA instructors etc forking out the tens of thousands required for a 737 licence, then looking for the jobs out there. Its a tough world these days.

Most companies wouldn't hire a 200hr pilot to fly a citation even if he had the rating... so its something you'd be looking at a bit down the track after you've got some experience and are working for a living. Thats my opinion anyway.
It looks like a lot of places have minimum hours before they'll even let you get the type rating. It seems like 1500 hrs minimum is the norm to get a Citation type rating.

[N9103M]

Type ratings are expensive!

I saw the bills for my Shorts and Falcon 20 types (They were outsourced to Flight Safety and Simuflite respectively)

The Shorts was $10,000 and the Falcon 20 was $13,000.

The price you saw was probably for a short course CE-500 type. Most type rating courses are atleast 2 weeks with some self-study involved. There is a big market in the USA for B-737 type ratings because Southwest Airlines requires one to start class if hired. So prices on them are pretty low, in the 5-9 thousand range.

The rarer types go up extensively from there. Gulfstreams are generally the most expensive at upwards of 20 thousand for a G-V type.

The regionals will issue a Second-In-Command (SIC) type rating to new hires. It will look just like a normal type rating except it will contain a limitation that you can only act as SIC in that type.

My certificate has the following types:

SD-3; DA-20; B-727; ERJ-170; ERJ-190

With the following limitations:

B-727; ERJ-170/190 SIC Privledges Only
B-727; ERJ-170/190 VMC Circling Only

[Bok269]

The regionals will issue a Second-In-Command (SIC) type rating to new hires. It will look just like a normal type rating except it will contain a limitation that you can only act as SIC in that type.



So will they upgrade your rating to PIC when the time comes? Or would you have to go out and get it on your own?

[N9103M]

The company pays for it, then the "SIC only" restriction is dropped. You usually also get your Airline Transport Pilot certificate when you upgrade as well if you don't already have it.

[JordanD]

hah, guess I'm gonna be driving the same old beat up car until I pay for all my type ratings in the future. :lol:
Thanks for the info!

[screaming_emu]

hah, guess I'm gonna be driving the same old beat up car until I pay for all my type ratings in the future. :lol:
Thanks for the info!

Don't pay for your type ratings. If a place isn't gong to pay for your type rating, you don't want to work there.

[MCM]

That used to be the case Screaming Emu... these days many "proper" airlines require you to pay for them.

Virgin Blue I beleive used to, Jetstar still requires you to pay for your A320 rating, and various 737 operators around the place (esp in Europe).

Its a different world these days :(

[N9103M]

That used to be the case Screaming Emu... these days many "proper" airlines require you to pay for them.

Virgin Blue I beleive used to, Jetstar still requires you to pay for your A320 rating, and various 737 operators around the place (esp in Europe).

Its a different world these days :(

That might be the case in Australia or other parts of the world, but that's very far from the norm. here in the USA.

Southwest Airlines is the only airline that requires you to be type rated as a condition of employment.

[JordanD]

That might be the case in Australia or other parts of the world, but that's very far from the norm. here in the USA.

Southwest Airlines is the only airline that requires you to be type rated as a condition of employment.
But it seems like almost every place that flies bizjets or King Airs requires a type rating on that. I haven't looked to see if Netjets or flexjet or anything like that does, but since they want some amount of turbine time, I guess it's inevitable that you'll have to fork out a bunch of money for a type rating at some point.

[JSchraub]

http://www.netjets.com/footer_content/careers_pilots.asp Netjets and flexjet don't req. a type rating.. Flexjet's mins are ATP, 2500 TT, 500 ME, 500 Turbine, and a 1st class medical. As for WN there is no need to go out and get your 73 type unless you for sure have the job.

[Crism]

That might be the case in Australia or other parts of the world, but that's very far from the norm. here in the USA.

Southwest Airlines is the only airline that requires you to be type rated as a condition of employment.

You still cruising around in those 727s? How far are you from upgrade time?

[screaming_emu]

But it seems like almost every place that flies bizjets or King Airs requires a type rating on that. I haven't looked to see if Netjets or flexjet or anything like that does, but since they want some amount of turbine time, I guess it's inevitable that you'll have to fork out a bunch of money for a type rating at some point.

Here's how stuff is supposed to (and usually does) work here in the US. Most of the time you wont be hired directly into the left seat of one of those aircraft. You're hired as an f/o, for which you do not need a type rating. When the time comes to upgrade to captain, you are sent to upgrade training and with that comes your type rating.

Again, very few exceptions to that rule, southwest being the only reputible carrier that comes to mind that requires otherwise.

[MCM]

To fly a 737 in the rest of the world you need a type rating for the aircraft, even as an F/O. Most airlines as you say will give you that themselves, but times are changing. 5 years ago every airline did its own type ratings, now, many (including Southwest) do not. You must pay.

All I'm saying is that these days you need to be prepared for the possiblity of having to pay for your own type rating, as more and more airlines are requiring it. Most will only ask you to pay for it after you have the job, fortunately(?).

Its hit the rest of the world, don't think that America will remain different. It probably wont.

(P.S I am very much against it, just saying what seems to be the way things are going :()

[Crunk415balla]

To Southwest's credit, while most airlines pay starting FO's around $30 per hour, WN pays over $50/h right off the bat. Perhaps the type rating thing allows them to do so?

[LRJet Guy]

I doubt you'll see very many airlines except Southwest require you to pay for your own type.

Pay for training can be a very hot topic in the States, and paying for a type rating is looked as the same. I think WN will remain the sole company requiring that.

I doubt you'll see ALPA ever sign off on a contract where pilots are required to pay for any part of their training again. It's been done in the past, but I HIGHLY doubt it will ever resurface.

Even non-ALPA carriers will shy away because there will be too many airlines to work for that don't require it. The reason WN has been getting away with it is because it is a stable company that pays well, and treats its employees properly. It will continue to be the exception.