Air Canada aborted takeoff video

[RingwaySam]

Hello,

Just been looking on Google videos and came across this. Quite intresting, luckily the pilot did a great job getting her to stop. Please note the guy who filmed it is a complete retard, im sure you'll see why near the end.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7832043939212729970&q=Aborted

[Airbus_A320]

Anybody know what actually happened there?... Dale?

The guy who made the video is a melodramatic moron.

[Sam at MAN]

Cool vid, but that guy sounds very scary:sleep:

[mikecweb]

Wow I couldn't take that guy. 12 mins of him and I want to shoot myself.

[Mungous]

^ God yes. He narrated the whole thing in 'overhype' mode.

And isn't V2 the point of no return?

[Airbus_A320]

^ God yes. He narrated the whole thing in 'overhype' mode.

And isn't V2 the point of no return?
V1 is point of no return, VR is rotate, V2 is safe-climbout speed.

[mikecweb]

And he was able to know what V1 was?
And I love the "Turn at the outer marker" while taxing onto the runway. Dipsh*t. I hate aviation because it attracts so many morons.

[Electric-Jet]

Oh man the way he is talking all slow, and thinks he knows everything makes me want to freak out. I hate people that are like that.

[ACman]

And he was able to know what V1 was?
And I love the "Turn at the outer marker" while taxing onto the runway. Dipsh*t. I hate aviation because it attracts so many morons.

There is no possible way to judge V1 speed from a passengers seat. If that aircraft had of reached V1, it would not be able to abort the take off. V1 means you cannot abort the take-off, you can abort it up to V1. This guy is really really dumb. Once the F/O or Captain (who ever has control) says "V1" you take your hands off the throttles. I can safely say, this plane didnt reach V1, but possibly came close to it.

I want to punch him in the face too "this is very, very bad" "somehting happend" "this is bad"...

[Airbus_A320]

There is no possible way to judge V1 speed from a passengers seat. If that aircraft had of reached V1, it would not be able to abort the take off. V1 means you cannot abort the take-off, you can abort it up to V1. This guy is really really dumb. Once the F/O or Captain (who ever has control) says "V1" you take your hands off the throttles. I can safely say, this plane didnt reach V1, but possibly came close to it.

I want to punch him in the face too "this is very, very bad" "somehting happend" "this is bad"...
The best part is at the end when he wrote about the note he gave to the captain and offered the video...

I'm surprised he hasn't yet tried to file a lawsuit against AC for "emotional distress" after his terrifying/life changing experience :lol:

[pilotgolfer]

That guy sounds really pessimistic about the aborted takeoff. I'm not too sure if that guy is, well, I'm not really gonna say anything. I mean, I love aviation also, but people like him just make me want to slap him or something. I like to talk myself through the takeoff roll, but i keep it to myself. Gah, i just hate his tone of voice. That's what really gets me. Along with what he says and wrote on the video.
:roll:

Geeze this guy is crazy. So if he said he'll never recover from the aborted takeoff, my question is why did he take the next flight out to YVR? Psycho, IMO.

This is just a sidenote, but do they have the announcements in both english and french on all AC flights?

[RingwaySam]

This is just a sidenote, but do they have the announcements in both english and french on all AC flights?

Never noticed that. Possibly because of Quebec in Canda?

[ACman]

This is just a sidenote, but do they have the announcements in both english and french on all AC flights?

Yes, AC doesnt have to. But they do anyway for curtosey.

[Airbus_A320]

Never noticed that. Possibly because of Quebec in Canda?
All the AC flights I have been on have had announcements in both.

[C-GEPA]

Yes, AC doesnt have to. But they do anyway for curtosey.


Yes they do have to make announcements in both English and French. Its one of those things legally required of AC.

[LRJet Guy]

What a friggin tool. I've RTO'd twice, and thank God I didn't have some moron back there like this guy.

I don't think I could have held a straight face after being handed that note.

[ACman]

Yes they do have to make announcements in both English and French. Its one of those things legally required of AC.

The Air Canada Act ehheeh. WS doesnt do it ;)

[JordanD]

Last comment on earth? IT'S AN ABORTED TAKEOFF FOR F*CKS SAKE!!! :roll:

"OMG TEH PILOT NOT TAKEOFF! WE DIE ALL GONNA!"

[andrew_c]

The Air Canada Act ehheeh. WS doesnt do it ;)

ALL the flights I have been on with Westjet have had the Safety Announcements in ENGLISH and FRENCH. When I flew YVR-YYC last winter one of the FAs did it all completely in french, not on tape ;).

[screaming_emu]

what an ass hat

[PIAA310]

ummmmm Video was alright, but that guy needs to shove something in his mouth and stop acting like he knows what he's talking about.

[JordanD]

20 bucks says he's an A.netter. :razz:

[seventwo]

When it said he offered the tape to the captain, I thought it would say
"and he said yes"
"and went home and watched it"
"and after he saw how much of an idiot I was, added the commentary and put it online, for everyone to see how much of an idiot I am."

But this guy saved the pilot the trouble. What a moron. I want my 12 minutes back...

[Foxtrot]

Drama queen (or in this case, king), would be an understatement. As for his "expert" commentary-> :sleep:

On another note, kudos to the skilled professionals up front in the office.

Foxtrot

[Cam]

He turned onto the threshold...not the outer marker...jesus....

[Star Alliance]

(Intake of Breath)
The pilot then applied full brakes, full flaps, and reverse thrust...or in pilot speak, 'speed brakes'.
...Maybe a bird alert...
You bawstard...[said in wimpy voice]take a picture! Heello!
:lol:
Good God, this guy is a SHITTARD (yes, I just made that up)! He apparently likes the sound of his own, psychotic voice. He so mellowdramatic and emo that I was temped to cut myself several times over the course of this piece!

[screaming_emu]

I left a...ummm...colorful comment :-)

[Star Alliance]

So have I.

[screaming_emu]

Yo Dale, do you happen to know the actual reason for this abort?

[Mungous]

I found this in Google County, Internetropolis:

Tokyo, Sept. 12 (AP): An Air Canada flight bound for Vancouver aborted takeoff today from a west Japan airport after pilots slammed on the brakes due to a warning signal indicating trouble with the plane, officials and a news report said.

The Boeing 767 was about to take off from a runway at Osaka's Kansai International Airport when a warning signal indicated trouble with the vessel's landing gear, prompting pilots to bring the plane to a halt and abort takeoff, according to Kyodo News agency.

Air escaped from the plane's four right wheels from the impact of the brakes, but there were no injuries, Kyodo said.

Airport official Akiko Jintei partly confirmed the incident, saying the vessel headed to an airport runway at 3:40 pm (1210 IST) but told airport control about 40 minutes later it would abort takeoff for further maintenance.

;-)

[bapilot2b]

He could have tried to spell Asiana correctly!!

[Crunk415balla]

Oh my god! That was amazing! They came so close to death! Really! The plane must have had only HALF the runway left! Good thing they were able to stop it in just 5 or 6 seconds, thanks to flaps being fully extended in a split second(we in the buisness call this a speedbrake). That guy must not have thought he was on the brink of death when they turned onto the outermarker. Everyone on the aircraft was almost KILLED when that Asiana 763 came screaming across the runway. Despite the pilots losing site of it, its a good thing they reacted in time. Heroes.

What are the chances that we would have such an educated aviation expert, who knows what is going on in the cockpit at any one moment in flight, and having him videotape it and provide commentary. He did a lot of work. For him to find out the V1 Vr and V2 speeds, he had to go and find out the length of the runway, and calculate the weight on board, and to make the situation even more difficult, the man had no airspeed indicator, meaning he had to use his own good judgement to call out the speeds!:shock:

AMAZING!:clap:

[RingwaySam]

20 bucks says he's an A.netter. :razz:

Well, actually he is. I saw a post of his video on a.net but he was getting abused by the members so he removed the video, fortuently he didn't take it off the net :)

[B7772ADL]

Hmm, I wouldn't be offering the tape to the captain when you strictly shouldn't be using electrical products during take-off ;)

[G-DALE]

What an absolute jackass!...

[MaxPower]

^^A jackass that sure knew what he was talking about. After all he is a certified pilot..And he knew what was going on in the cockpit at any given time during a take off. lol.

[G-DALE]

^^A jackass that sure knew what he was talking about. After all he is a certified pilot..And he knew what was going on in the cockpit at any given time during a take off. lol.
Tell me about it. He claimed that they had passed V1 and were 5 seconds from VR when the takeoff was aborted. As we all know though, they hadn't even reached V1, nevermind VR :roll:

[pkonowrocki]

What a f*cker....what a waste of time for watching a movei and a waste of seat on that flight...

[Cam]

Are commercial planes wheels filled with air or nitrogen?

[matth]

I believe nitrogen, but I'm not 100% sure

[pkonowrocki]

Are commercial planes wheels filled with air or nitrogen?
I know that Boeing 737's wheels are filled with Nitrogen. Don't know about other.

[ptbodale]

Good afternoon guys.

1st Air Canada makes all announcements in its acft in at least French and English as we are mandated by the Air Canada Act. Other airlines in Canada are not obligated to make their announcements in both languages, however most do.

2nd - Fin 684, AC036 rejected take-off at 155 knots as the flight crew received an Eicas message advising them of "gear failure". They elected to abort the take-off. Four tires were blown during the stop. The acft was never in any danger. The inspection found that a "gear seal' had failed.

Anything else other than we need to lynch the ass on the video?

[ACman]

Are commercial planes wheels filled with air or nitrogen?


Yup, with oxygen in them, they would catch fire.

[RingwaySam]

2nd - Fin 684, AC036 rejected take-off at 155 knots as the flight crew received an Eicas message advising them of "gear failure". They elected to abort the take-off. Four tires were blown during the stop. The acft was never in any danger. The inspection found that a "gear seal' had failed.

Thanks Dale! Is that was caused the thumping just befor the aborted takeoff when the guy says V1?

[ptbodale]

I'm not a MTC guy, but I think that was the thumping. I'll try to get the Mtc Mgr behind me to listen to the video.

[JordanD]

I'm not a MTC guy, but I think that was the thumping. I'll try to get the Mtc Mgr behind me to listen to the video.
Are you trying to get him to kill himself? :razz:

[ptbodale]

Are you trying to get him to kill himself? :razz:

hahaha, either that or he will want to strangle the video maker.

[atcvector]

Yup, with oxygen in them, they would catch fire.

Sorry but that is not the reason. there is enough other things down there to catch fire, hydraulic lines, tires etc... The tires are filled with nitrogen because nitrogen is a very dry gas. This greatly helps control corrosion problems inside the aluminum or magnesium wheels. I am sure that there are a couple of other reasons but fire prevention is not one of them.

[Mungous]

^ both reasons sound right; Nitrogen is inert (unreactive) therefore doesn't corrode. If the tyres had oxygen in them, they won't catch fire themselves but might intensify any existing fires if they burst.

[Cam]

I trust all your judgments, but is there anything online that explains it in more detail.

***
A good point I would like to make. Earlier on in his statement, he said that he was an "airline brat" and that he knew "What was going on in the cockpit at any given point". If he knew what was going on, how did he miss the fact that it was a problem with the landing gear....
Hmmm, good job douche...keep plugging away those dollars for flights, you may have more time than a certified pilot, but the pilot of that 763 probably makes more than you ever will in your lifetime......I wonder if he would be willing to sell any of his Star Wars collection, or Battlestar Galactica dolls...

"A passenger saw an Asiana 767...." yea, ok...and I just passed Santa on the freeway....

[LRJet Guy]

Tires are filled with nitrogen due to the moisture content of compressed air. If you filled them up with compressed air, you could end up with blocks of ice in the tires. Might make them a little out of balance on landing.

Yes, they guy in the video is an asshat. (good one) Lynching him though? Come on guys, it's way more fun to poke fun of someone that's alive. I'm sorry I missed my chance to flame him on the other site.

[Chris@YYZ]

Well, actually he is. I saw a post of his video on a.net but he was getting abused by the members so he removed the video, fortuently he didn't take it off the net :)

ROFL! :lol:

[Crunk415balla]

Tires are filled with nitrogen due to the moisture content of compressed air. If you filled them up with compressed air, you could end up with blocks of ice in the tires. Might make them a little out of balance on landing.
I was wondering about that, thanks for the explanation as to why they are filled with nitrogen.

[ACman]

Sorry but that is not the reason. there is enough other things down there to catch fire, hydraulic lines, tires etc... The tires are filled with nitrogen because nitrogen is a very dry gas. This greatly helps control corrosion problems inside the aluminum or magnesium wheels. I am sure that there are a couple of other reasons but fire prevention is not one of them.

Well its one of the reasons why. Oxygen would heat up way to fast on the ground due to friction.

[atcvector]

Well its one of the reasons why. Oxygen would heat up way to fast on the ground due to friction.

Nobody would ever consider filling the tires with oxygen in the first place. Airplanes with innertubes (most piston powered light aircraft) use plain compressed air the the tires. Airplanes with tubeless tires use nitrogen because of the anti corrosion properties. Nitrogen is not used for fire prevention in tires. What is your source for this belief?

[Genessee]

Nobody would ever consider filling the tires with oxygen in the first place. Airplanes with innertubes (most piston powered light aircraft) use plain compressed air the the tires. Airplanes with tubeless tires use nitrogen because of the anti corrosion properties. Nitrogen is not used for fire prevention in tires. What is your source for this belief?Both Goodyear and Michelin's aviation tire web sites mention the benefits of "dry nitrogen gas" in one place or another. One of which states the gas will "not sustain combustion". That wording is from the Goodyear site.

[MaxPower]

Hmmmrrrrp..http://xs307.xs.to/xs307/06401/Thinking.gif I wonder what is the proper values for V1, VR and V2 for B767's, values as in how many knots. ?? I presume that one have to count includes MTOW ? Just curious..!

[JordanD]

The speeds are never the same John. It's all dependent on the weight of the aircraft for that particular takeoff. It can probably vary from around 120-160 knots, but I don't know. Where's AJ? :razz:

[WILCO737]

The speeds are never the same John. It's all dependent on the weight of the aircraft for that particular takeoff. It can probably vary from around 120-160 knots, but I don't know. Where's AJ? :razz:

Well, I am not AJ, but I am Phil and I fly 737s... not exactly the same aircraft type as in the video... ;)
I watched all 12 minutes of this video and I was about to switch off my speakers... This guy is so annoying... Jesus...
Anyway... The take off speeds vary a lot! Every take off has different speeds, because of different weight, temperature, air pressure, wind, runway length, terrain, 2nd segment climb limits...
Considering all those facts you get proper speeds for your take off! You can abort the take off until V1, afterwards you have to get airborne... and hopefully land safely again!
The speeds on our 737 vary somewhere between 110 (lowest V1) like on ice runways or snow... and the highest V1 I have ever experienced was 166 in Frankfurt taking off runway 18! This is freaking fast for our small 737! It was basically a standard day and we were fully loaded, maximum take off weight. FLaps 1° take off! V1: 166, Vr 167 and V2 171...

I hope that helped a bit...

WILCO737
aka Phil

[AJ]

Thanks Phil!

The speeds are never the same John. It's all dependent on the weight of the aircraft for that particular takeoff. It can probably vary from around 120-160 knots, but I don't know. Where's AJ? :razz:

We'll be doing a close to max weight takeoff from Sydney bound for Hong Kong today, I'll jot down the figures!

[JordanD]

Cool! Looking forward to it AJ.

[AJ]

Okay, using the full length of Sydney's Runway 16R (3962m/12999ft) at 185,000kg on an ISA day the figures work out to:
V1 = 151
VR = 168
V2 = 173
+40 = 215
+80 = 255 (Clean speed)
Thr = 106.5% N1
All for a Boeing 767-338(ER) with CF6-80C2B6F PMC engines.

[JordanD]

Awesome thanks for posting AJ.

[uy707]

Interesting live video, excellent seizure of P/As including this steward's delightful Quebecan accent pretty informative on Kansai's layout. Good to see this ended well for you.
Alain

[MaxPower]

Okay, using the full length of Sydney's Runway 16R (3962m/12999ft) at 185,000kg on an ISA day the figures work out to:
V1 = 151
VR = 168
V2 = 173
+40 = 215
+80 = 255 (Clean speed)
Thr = 106.5% N1
All for a Boeing 767-338(ER) with CF6-80C2B6F PMC engines.

Hey AJ, Thanks for the numbers, it really gives us an idea about the GE-CF6 powered B763ER, btw what's an ISA day stand for ??

[AJ]

John, International Standard Atmosphere;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Atmosphere

[SJC Alien]

This same moron did the same thing on Youtube,,,and was roundly bashed by all.................

Alien

[brianw999]

He taxiis in after an aborted takeoff and says "something must have gone wrong" !!

Jeez, No shit Sherlock ?

[Van Hoolio]

"...because we're on the road to Hell."

=

Must be Emo!

[JordanD]

"...because we're on the road to Hell."

=

Must be Emo!
Which means he probably killed himself after everyone at a.net ripped on him. :lol:

[mbartle]

Now guys, chill out. This is friggin hillarious. "We have turned at the outer marker and are ready for takeoff!" I'm falling out of my chair. That's a long way to taxi out for takeoff, and would be quite bumpy.

"I am completely aware of all aircraft systems at any given second of the flight. In fact, I know more than the pilots do" then "uhh.....something happened. Probably a bird alert"

Yeah, I feel like, had I been sitting next to him, my elbow might have been accidentally jammed in his nose, but not due to my own emotional distress at the RTO, but just to make the world a better place.

I think I've been a passenger on 2 RTOs, (seems like 3 but can't remember the third). I'm an airline employee, and I remember distinctly my emotional distress at the RTO. It was "oh sh*t, this is the last flight that had any seats on it...I"m about to be stranded here!"

[Cam]

Forgot about this thread! Ha-ha!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7832043939212729970&q=Aborted

Just so you don't have to go to page one.

[JordanD]

Forgot about this thread! Ha-ha!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7832043939212729970&q=Aborted

Just so you don't have to go to page one.
I think if they were gonna go through the trouble to dig up an 18 month old thread they wouldn't mind the extra trouble of going to page 1. :wink:

[Cam]

I was actually looking for the video, and remembered this thread.....this guy still cracks me up.

"Flat as pancakes....flat as pancakes!"

[Crunk415balla]

Wow. I still want to donkeypunch him.

[Cam]

I wish he didn't fly Air Canada.....man....if I had sat next to him I would have donkey punched him.......I just sit there and look out the window.

[MaxPower]

Thanks for bringing this douche back to life. I bet till this day he still gets pwnd at youtube or wherever this video was posted at.

This guy should be an Actor in the Entertainment business.

[DaveGF4G]

Yes they do have to make announcements in both English and French. Its one of those things legally required of AC.

CORRECT... it is the LAW in Canada to use BOTH languages concerning any public venue. This is true for every Provence except Quebec where English is outlawed

[Trip7-300ER]

OH MY GOD!!!!!

now this is quality entertainment....
now if you are considered to be a pilot by SITTING in an airplane, why spend the money training to be a pilot.

Like the captain said. i've got a lot of paperwork to do, sounds like a nice way of saying shut the f*** up, i dont care about your stupid video.

SO THIS INCIDENT SCARRED ME FOR LIFE.... so i took the next flight out of there??

what the hell
lol

still say it was a great video and an awesome job by the pilots, just wish the cameraman lost his voice and gained some amount of general knowledge.
for an aviation brat he really was a brat.
just that
not even the smallest hint of aviation, or for that matter any sence

[NickN]

Thats so funny I was laughing my butt off at work and everyone was looking at me all stupid like I was crazy!


Just a question for AJ regarding the 767-338ER.....

Based off the figures and take-off weight you provided.... what is the approximate climb rate for that aircraft in FPM? and what thrust setting would this climb rate be done at? 90% N1? or full thrust? and is full thrust set until cruise altitude?

Also, if your clean speed is 255 knots and the max airspeed under 10,000ft is 250 knots, does this mean flaps stay at 1 degree until speed restrictions are lifted or is it flaps up at 215 knots?

The reason I ask is that I just downloaded the Level-D 767-300ER for FSX and would love to know the best way to fly this aircraft.

[MCM]

I'm not AJ but:

FPM climb I can't answer - although it feels like a hell of a lot in a 767 ;)

As to thrust for climb... you use take off thrust until a certain point (which depends on the noise abatement procedure you are using.. NADP 1 or 2) (we'll say 1500ft Edited - Brain fade! off 34L in Sydney) and then select climb thrust. The actual amount of oomph (and the associated readings) that gives you depends on temperature etc. There are various different settings for the climb thrust depending on how much you need to go up, and how heavy you are at the time. Its an Autothrottle managed thing (clever FMC's/AT's!) even on the steam driven 767 ;).

If the Flaps Up speed is 255kts (as per AJ's example) then you select flaps up after passing through that speed. So, technically, to maintain 250kts, you need to keep Flaps 1 to hold that speed. Edited - See AJ's post below... Seems the 767 is like the 744 at high weights with a reduced manoeuvre margin near the flap limit speed which I was unaware of.

However, in that situation, you would just ask for them to cancel the speed restriction (as they can in Australia), or ask if you can climb at 255 kts (whereby he will say that is approved)

The UK now has a rule whereby 250 below 10,000ft also applies, however for certain types of aircraft, they are allowed to fly faster if required due to weight (ie longhaul 744's). Some other places have other rules. (There is somewhere in Eastern Europe which I think has got it right by saying max speed is Minimum Clean speed)

I digress somewhat however.. so back to your specific question... yes, you are right, you maintain flaps 1 (and 250kts) until the speed restrictions are lifted. Technically ;) Edited - Ignore this as above

[AJ]

If the Flaps Up speed is 255kts (as per AJ's example) then you select flaps up after passing through that speed.
Very close, but not quite ;)
The Flaps 1 limit speed is 250 knots. Flaps are selected up accelerating through Vref30+60 (235 knots in this case). The Flaps must be fully retracted prior to passing 250 Knots and +80 must be achieved to allow full manoeuvre margins clean.

As for the departure profile and rates of climb....our 'standard' departure would maintain V2+15 and takeoff thrust to 1000'AAL. VNAV would then be selected to accelerate the aircraft and set climb thrust. On an ISA day Max Climb Thrust is approximately 99% at sea level, increasing to 104% by 28,000'. A noise abatement departure would have Climb Thrust set at 1500'AAL and V2+15 maintained to 3000'AAL. Above 10,000' (if 250 Knots < 10,000' applies) the aircraft is accelerated to ECON climb speed (in the region of 300 Knots).

The actual rate of climb varies throughout the climb, additionally the climb is not generally flown in V/S, it will be flown in VNAV of FLCH.

[MCM]

HAHAH just because you have strangely low placard speeds :-P

[NickN]

AJ,


Say for instance I am allocated a Deena 4 departure from 16R, and follow the respective noise abatement procedure, with the plane configured for short haul, once I pass 10,000 I normally select FLCH in order to climb out. I suppose I could be less lazy and properly program the FMC with weights etc but its just easier to allow FLCH to do the work for me, it normally gives me 100.4 - 102.5% N1 with engines in CLIMB mode right through to cruise altitude. Normally at FL360 and a TAT of -46c or less I normally get 91-92% N1 @ Mach 0.82-83.

Does that sound about right?

I suppose I should reallt start using the FMC properly huh? hehe

[bigdave]

slowed down dramatically quick. I'm unclear on what actually happened. Was it that the pilots received warnings of tyre pressure and decided to abort or was it that another a/c failed to spot this jet taking off, therefore breaking so suddenly it managed to burst the tyres. Or was it some other kind of technical fault.

Let me know so that i have a clear picture.

[iranair777]

I hope that baby gave him hell! secondly, If he was the pilot for my flight, I would rather be killed by someone else than him. Thirdly that was the most useless 12mins of my life and I would rather had listened to rap music (I know, OMG!)

Also big dave, nearly everything about that video is total sh*t

[Jerrycobra Boeing]

flaps are not speedbrakes :nonono: