The secret to smooth landings ?

[MaxPower]

By disengaging the Autopilot or flying it on autopilot in CAT1 ILS ?

Is it true that by disengaging the autopilot (Autoland) @ example in RPLL, the pilots are guaranteed safety up to 200 ft from threshold (Correct me if Im wrong) http://www.philskies.net/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif At this height the runway must be clearly visible, the approach must be correct, & the aircraft must be under manual control.

If all 3 are not confirmed, then its TOGA time ?

[AJ]

Sorry John I'm not quite sure what you are asking.

[MaxPower]

Sorry John I'm not quite sure what you are asking.
How smoother can you get the landing ?

By disengaging the autopilot upon approach landing when you are 100 ft above the threshold ?

[AJ]

I have had smooth landings after disconnecting the autopilot at 20,000 feet and smooth landings after disconnecting at 50 feet! I have also had crap landings after same.

On the 767 disconnecting below 400 feet with a crosswind can be destabilising as the autopilot has entered runway alignment mode and crossed up the controls which it releases when you disconnect.

Generally in poor weather we leave the autopilot engaged until fully visual, which as you say on a Cat I ILS is around 200' unless an autoland is to be performed.

I hope this is the type of info you are after.

[MaxPower]

I have had smooth landings after disconnecting the autopilot at 20,000 feet and smooth landings after disconnecting at 50 feet! I have also had crap landings after same.
On the 767 disconnecting below 400 feet with a crosswind can be destabilising as the autopilot has entered runway alignment mode and crossed up the controls which it releases when you disconnect.
Generally in poor weather we leave the autopilot engaged until fully visual, which as you say on a Cat I ILS is around 200' unless an autoland is to be performed. So it really depends on pretty much the weather, and also if you're lucky enough to hit it at the best "time". Thus its not guaranteed to successful smooth landings, As I understand now.
I hope this is the type of info you are after. Yeah, This was quite what I was looking for. Thanks Sirr !

[LRJet Guy]

A good landing is all about holding your mouth right, whether the airplane was blessed by a Buddhist monk, whether you had a biscuit for breakfast, what kind of gas you filled your car up with last, etc.....

[Foxtrot]

The more I read/learn about landing an airplane smoothly (from pilot accounts and other credible sources), the more it boils down to stabilising the approach and properly flaring the aircraft. Landing an airplane is somewhat like an artform, it's the correct balance between engine power and aircraft altitude and attitude. The weather is also an issue as AJ pointed out.

Foxtrot

[LRJet Guy]

An unstable approach frequently leads to a crappy landing.

With the Dash 300, you don't flare the thing. You fly Vref all the way to the ground. It actually lands better than the short Dash because it doesn't let you flare it, and the mains are angled back a little bit.

[screaming_emu]

The key to learning how to do a smooth landing is flying with me...











...that way you know what NOT to do ;-)

[Crunk415balla]

Since we're on the topic of smooth landings, I have a little trouble landing in the Cessna 172 Skyhawk. The aircraft always ends up floating on landing and I use up way more of the runway then I should. Any ideas of how to overcome this?

[Chris@YYZ]

Since we're on the topic of smooth landings, I have a little trouble landing in the Cessna 172 Skyhawk. The aircraft always ends up floating on landing and I use up way more of the runway then I should. Any ideas?

heh, when that happens to me my instructor is delighed :p

I think that might be ground effect btw.

[LRJet Guy]

Fly the proper airspeed, and pull the power out of it at the right time. Quite honestly its been so long since I flew a single that I'd probably crash the SOB, but that sounds about right.

You've also got to pick your aiming point and adjust the sink rate to put the airplane on the proper spot. Looking down the full length of the runway rather than your aiming point helps a lot too. That's probably the best thing you can do to start helping yourself make better landings.

[MaxPower]

Thanks LR. So how about combining the sink rate while you adjusting the "thrust" ? What are the chances you would end up saying, w000t for a magnificent landing you just made... ?? Haha :razz:

[Crunk415balla]

Thanks LRJet Guy, I'll keep that in mind.

[JordanD]

Fly the proper airspeed, and pull the power out of it at the right time. Quite honestly its been so long since I flew a single that I'd probably crash the SOB, but that sounds about right.

You've also got to pick your aiming point and adjust the sink rate to put the airplane on the proper spot. Looking down the full length of the runway rather than your aiming point helps a lot too. That's probably the best thing you can do to start helping yourself make better landings.
Looking all the way down the runway is what helped me. I used to not be able to nail a landing ever, but since the day I quit looking right in front of the nose, I've done pretty well with landings.

[screaming_emu]

Chasen, sounds like you may be doin your approaches a we bit fast. Either that, or you're fixating on your landing point. Try aiming for a spot shortly before where you plan on landing. For example, if you want to land on the 2nd centerline stripe on a big instrument runway, aim for the one before it. If you're on a small runway, go for the numbers, by the time you flare and such, you will have floated past it and will hopefully land right on your spot.

[Crunk415balla]

Thanks Joe, that seems to be the advice I'm getting from most people and I'm eager to try it. The airport I usually fly at, SQL, has few markings on the rather short runway, just the numbers and a faded "San Carlos" written across the runway. So I think I'll just focus on the "30" on the runway, and hopefully I'll be done floating by the time I get to the point where I plan to touchdown.

[screaming_emu]

well, I got my CFI checkride tomorrow morning, so if all goes well, I can now start charging you for advice ;-) Passed the oral this morning :-)

[Crunk415balla]

Good luck, Joe! :clap::clap:

[screaming_emu]

Good luck, Joe! :clap::clap:

Emu wins!

[Crunk415balla]

Congrats Joe!:clap::clap:

And who ever said Emu's couldn't fly?

[screaming_emu]

Congrats Joe!:clap::clap:

And who ever said Emu's couldn't fly?

muchos gracias senor

[MaxPower]

Thats great to hear, Joe ! Finally! Right !.. Btw its Senór :wink::razz:

[Chris@YYZ]

congrats Joe! do Jp.net guys get a discount on your services? :p

[Foxtrot]

Emu wins!

Congratulations 8)

Foxtrot

[Crism]

Getting back on topic lol.....

I'm a constant flight simulator player which usually is a bad thing. However, I've watched multiple landings and whatnot in FS using the virtual cockpit and whatnot and the technique seems to be to

a. Come in at the correct speeds
b. Know what the airplane does (for instance the C172 can sink pretty good if you are slow and nose it over)
c. Get over the runway in or a little above ground effect
d. Hold it hold it hold it hold it off the runway until your airspeed bleeds off
e. When you start to sink, give the yoke a tug to get the nosewheel up and touch down nicely on the mains.

It's kind of hard to explain.

[Crunk415balla]

Here is the advice I was given from a friend when I brought up my floating situation in the Cessna, this person recently got their CFI, and claims that this meathod never fails them in the Cessna.

ok when you come in in the cessna i usually come in at about 65-70kts full flaps and playing with the power a little just to keep the constant decent once your over the threshold cut the power get in ground effect level off to bleed off the airspeed and then just think when your applying back pressure think half an inch, half an inch,half an inch until you hear the stall horn grease it and keep applying back pressure until you cant pull back any more and just let the nose rest on the gear by its self and if you would like to stop shorter apply full aft yolk and hard brake pressure after you land but dont lock them up. thats what i do every time and i almost drop my instructors jaw every time my landings are greased.

Never heard about the half an inch thing, anyone else do something similar to this?

[thecloudbuster]

Hi, with several thousand airliner hours and probably 5000 landings I hope I can help.

First of all, a smooth landing isn't always a good landing, especially on wet runways when you could do with a bit of effort to help prevent aqua-planning, and also if the landing is smooth as a result of landing well into the runway!

A good landing is with the aeroplane at the correct speed and attitude (correct landing energy) and on the touchdownmarkers on the centre line. (A bit like setting the optimum Aperture / Shutter speed on your camera) This is certainly more likely if the approach is stable such that the landing phase is commenced from a fairly consistent point. (i.e. sunny 16-rule!)

Judging when to flare, and how much, and how certain variables are going to effect things is part of the skill of piloting, but is largely down to judging rates of closure with the ground. This is done largely by peripheral vision, which makes night and misty landings more tricky, also unusual runway widths. Although most modern airliners have a radio altimeter call out 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 which is useful. How much too flare, thats where looking down the runway helps as its easier to judge the pitch, and also keep from landing on the grass!

When to take the power off is a key judgement, too early and you either run out of energy and "plop" to the ground or over flare in order to create enough lift which risks scrapping the tail, rotating the wheels into the runway (Big Thump!!!) or ballooning which means creating more lift than weight and increasing the distance between the aeroplane and the runway. (Not good)

Leave it on too long and you have too much energy which means landing flat, floating or if you pitch to the normal attitude, ballooning, however I'd personally prefer to have (on a non length limiting runway) slightly more energy than too less and there is a very good argument for limiting thrust changes in the later changes of the approach because in most aeroplane there is a power pitch couple. This means taking power off will cause the nose to drop and vice versa.

Bad weather, often really shocking landings are done at the end of a stable approach in calm weather, I guess the part of the brain which controls all the human elements of the landing just isn't up to speed! Windy weather has the effect of making it much more difficult to be energy stable and the energy in the flare can change, sometimes rather dramatically due to gusts.

The Airbus that I flew had the facility to obtain a landing data printout which stated touchdown G, and all sorts of very interesting parameters, and yes if you landed too firm it did automatically let someone else in the office know!

Happy Landings to all!